Towerview Apartments

[D.Schuttler]

Sends a mixed message to private developers doesn't it [B)]

Take a chance on Tulsa.....

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by swake

The mayor is a moron.

Why in the hell would any public money go to build a new �same as everywhere else� hotel when we have the Mayo? The proximity of the Mayo is good to the arena, and it IS unique. Public money if it is going to be used, should be used to preserve assets like the Mayo, if another �new� hotel beyond the Mayo one is needed, let private money pay for it.  

We have the DoubleTree right next to the convention center now, what would another Hammonds hotel add to the fabric of this part of downtown except hotel room count?

These were my thoughts exactly Swake. At a presentation done at the Mathew's
Building the Daughter of the Owner of the Mayo seemed to indicate that there was a need for "City Interest" in the Mayo...

Maybe we should check and see if they have submitted a request for a portion of the "Downtown Housing V2025 Fund"...?

There could be no better draw for Tulsa's Downtown than the Mayo as it was when they were building the Oneok Building...

This is where I feel the City sometimes overlooks it's potential.. Building something new rather than making use of the assets they have...

To me this would be the major difference between Kanbar's approach and The LaFortune methodology.


Interesting article and link to Mayo Website..





http://www.abandonedtulsa.blogspot.com/2005/08/not-abandoned-mayo-hotel.html

[Kiah]

I'll start the campaign . . . .

Do the Mayo First!

[DM]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by DM

Does anyone have a photo of the apts? I think there is plenty of open space DT for hotels and other new construction. But if its an old building that is in need of some serious repair, then I would have no problem with tearing it down for a hotel. Just as long as it is not torn down for another surface parking lot.

Also, as long as its daylight, you can see the back of the building from

http://www.vision2025.info/camera.php?camera=arenacamera

Thanks!

Is that boards I see on the windows? Seems like a good location for hotel. But so does that empty surface parking lot right next door.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by sportyart

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

Again, the point is not whether the building was or was not dilapidated.  I am sure it had problems.  And maybe the guy is a real sleaze and is trying to get more money for the building than its worth.  I have noticed for several months now that the building seems to have been emptied out--nothing left but the shell.  I was concerned that it meant demolition.

I, too, like the building.  I see no reason to tear it down simply based on speculation that a hotel, who wouldn't need the entire area, might be willing to locate there.

However sleazy this guy might be, I am sure he ultimately wants to make money.  He isn't going to let the building sit empty.

I am still puzzled why we need to use taxpayer's money to buy it.  First, do we really need a Hardrock cafe hotel right there, when we have the Mayo down the block?  And second, if we do, why can't private investment take care of it?  


Whatever company believes it could earn the most money is likely to buy the property--sometimes the free market does work (OMG--I sound like my libertarian friends).

You can thank the Supreme Court for anything that the city may do. Tulsa can condemn any property they want if its view to be blighted (and will find it very easy to do with this property), then they turn around and sell it to what ever company wants it. So yes, public funds are used to by the property, but get our money back when they sell it to who ever, its not like city is giving it away. Also the only way that this is legal is if they DON'T know who is going to buy. The city CANNOT condemn a property if they know who the future buyer will be, but they can do so if they say the area is a planed development area with hotel, shops and business.

The city at most will give this developer for a new hotel no more then a TIF if anything. The Mayo hotel should try to get in on the funding from Vision 2025 and the 3rd penny if it goes around. I for one would hate to see the Towerview to go, but I would rather see those funds go into the Mayo then it.

Yeah, I was not too pleased with the Kelo decision, but my question was not really about what the city could legally do--obviously they can do it.  Just WHY do it?  It makes no sense to me.  If another hotel is needed, there are lots of places to do it; if this guy is serious about building lofts, shouldn't we let him?; if a hotel is interested in building at that exact location, why not let that hotel buy the property?; if we need to spend public money on a hotel, why not the Mayo?

As I said before, I like the building--it has potential.  What if the city takes the building, tears it down, and then fails to negotiate with a hotel to build there?  Yea!!!! we will get another surface lot.  At the taxpayer's expense.

With the Mayo, on the other hand, we have an existing, exquisite hotel unique to Tulsa that just needs refurbishing.

[Kiah]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

Yeah, I was not too pleased with the Kelo decision, but my question was not really about what the city could legally do--obviously they can do it.  Just WHY do it?  It makes no sense to me.  If another hotel is needed, there are lots of places to do it; if this guy is serious about building lofts, shouldn't we let him?; if a hotel is interested in building at that exact location, why not let that hotel buy the property?; if we need to spend public money on a hotel, why not the Mayo?

As I said before, I like the building--it has potential.  What if the city takes the building, tears it down, and then fails to negotiate with a hotel to build there?  Yea!!!! we will get another surface lot.  At the taxpayer's expense.

With the Mayo, on the other hand, we have an existing, exquisite hotel unique to Tulsa that just needs refurbishing.

Sounds like you think we should . . .

Do the Mayo First!

[DM]

I would like to see the Mayo done as well. But if more hotels move into the area and the demand goes up then wouldnt investors look at the Mayo and consider renovating it?

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by DM

I would like to see the Mayo done as well. But if more hotels move into the area and the demand goes up then wouldnt investors look at the Mayo and consider renovating it?

How could more hotels create a demand for more hotels?

[D.Schuttler]

Let them take out the Tulsa World and build one there

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

Again, the point is not whether the building was or was not dilapidated.

That may very well be the point.  It may just not be your point.  I don't know what this guy's intentions are.  The TDA owns half that block, how easy will it be for them to develop it if a boarded up slum sits next to it?  How much will it cost a developer to purchase that boarded up slum, if areas around the Arena are already developing?  The Towerview could be a boarded up eye-sore for decades, and you just want ignore this?  A bit more thought and information needs to go into this.

If he is really going to develop it, that is important to know.  If he's going to let it sit there boarded up, while the property values go up, that is important to know.  Also, how old is it?  If you want make a preservation case, you'll need to get some facts.  Show me some facts about Towerview.  And maybe a few cool pics.  

The World flatten the Skelly for surface parking.  The Auto Hotel was in use, before it was purchased and turned into surface parking.  They flattened several blocks for the Williams Tower.  The City flattened several blocks for the Arena.  Some of that was "progress", some of that was not.

I'm not opposed to all progress, and a hotel would probably be progress on that block.  Especially if it takes up the entire block, and dries up the surface parking.  The preservation case for Towerview is going to be hard to make unless you've got some facts.

The argument so-far, is kind of "shot-gun".  You need one good argument.  Or one good cheerleader.

[rwarn17588]

My concern about the Towerview is whether the vermin can be exterminated. The place had fleas, cockroaches and rats galore, and in an old building like that, it's darned near impossible to get rid of them once they're established.

[MichaelC]

My concern is that the pro-Towerview folks can't convince me.  If the case is all that obvious, this should be a slam-dunk.

Give me some info, and a realistic "lobby-able" alternative.  

I'm going to back off this thread a bit, and see if you folks can come up with some information and a plan.  If you guys can "warm me up", I'll "go nuts" with you.

[DM]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by DM

I would like to see the Mayo done as well. But if more hotels move into the area and the demand goes up then wouldnt investors look at the Mayo and consider renovating it?

How could more hotels create a demand for more hotels?

Not creating more hotels. Just showing the demand for more hotels to investors. I have seen in other towns where older hotels dont get renovated until other hotels are built and more of a demand exists.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by DM

Not creating more hotels. Just showing the demand for more hotels to investors. I have seen in other towns where older hotels dont get renovated until other hotels are built and more of a demand exists.

I think I see what you're getting at.  Once some level of "critical mass" is achieved, renovating older hotels makes much more sense to developers.  On the other hand, if the owners of the Mayo are interested, I have absolutely no problem with the City helping them along.

If I get a chance, I'll try to take some photos today or tomorrow.

[Baghdaddy Warbucks]

All I have to say about towerview is...

"...it ain't nothin' napalm wouldn't cure!"[8D]