Need help with a home problem.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I just remeasured again. Was eeeextragenerous and added outside walls, rounded up every half foot to a full foot, etc. Came to 1700sq feet.

Then I thought perhaps they added the storage areas off the garage. One little rooom once had a window unit in it so figured perhaps they counted that. Its basically a laundry room and is 56sq feet. Then added the closet that contains the heating unit for the house it has space for storage and is right off the garage, it was 84 sq feet. Thats 130sq feet total for those two, so adding that makes the square footage 1830 sq feet. Thats about 200 sq feet short of what its supposed to be. Not a huge amount but for a house this small it would have been nice to have had or to have had that 16,000$ lol.

If I go and I find out the square footage is actually less than what I paid for, do I have any recourse? And in this instance, would it be worth bothering with?

I would like to add a small amount of info to the conversation....

If my memory serves me correct?

The time you say you purchased the house was about the same time that McGraw was found to have been using "Closings of Tulsa"..."exclusively"

If I am incorrect please let me know..  But somewhere you should have a record of the closing company.. as well as the appraiser.

If the appraiser was hired by the bank etc etc..
If closings of Tulsa was involved as well as McGraw.

Oh what the heck: just contact one of these influential developer types like Amanda with Metro Lofts... I'm sure they could tell you if you have legal recourse against any or all of the parties.

[TheArtist]

Yes I did use McGraw and Closings of Tulsa. Dont know who hired the appraiser or remember who the appraiser was. I kept getting the feeling in the McGraw office that... well they werent really shopping around and trying to get me the best deal or something.  I remember there was something about them in the news a while back but never looked to see what it was about? They said they were working for me and I trusted that they werent lying and were honestly looking out for my best interests as a first time homebuyer not knowing heads or tails about such things. They are a good sized, well known company so I figure they wouldnt ever do anything that would harm their reputation.


I also got financed through CountryWide Home Loans. Which has been in the news lol. I remember filling out a loan application thing at a home show I was with where McGraw had a booth. I didnt think I would actually even get approved for anything. I dont have a steady income. Self-employed artist... helloooo. But they called me later and said I was approved.  I asked for how much and they said. You can get whatever you want![8D] I was like Woooo Hoooo! lol. BUT I decided to play it safe and go for the best, cheap little house, that I felt I could reasonably afford during worst case scenario years. Ended up getting one of those "subprime" loans where after the first 2 years they start raising the rates, but because I was on time and went with something I could easily afford I was able to refinance with no problem. But, having been in the middle of all of that I can see how people could have gotten tempted and pushed their luck. I suppose thats one of the good lessons from having been a kid during the oil bust years. You know good times come to an end.

[Rico]

Do a little digging and find out why McGraw played out the way it did.

Closing of Tulsa as well...

Still think that Amanda with Metro Lofts or maybe even Jamie could let you know what actions any of the parties can be held accountable for.

Possibly even one of our very own Barristers could provide a little feedback.

Land Records at the Court House will tell you exactly what square footage the structure is on record as having..

Thing is, for a small fee, most Realtors have desktop access to this info on their computer.

Somewhere you have your Mortgage papers. Attached will be a copy of the "Appraisal" ..

Listing Sq footage and Comps they used Etc etc.

The "McGraw.. Closings of Tulsa thing always puzzled me. Funneling all the Closing to one Company made the owners of that company some money.. What did McGraw get out of it??

[inteller]

Ah, Mcgraw and closings of tulsa....what a racket.

so many things on this thread, I'll just say a few comments.

Zillow isn't the law when it comes to estimates.  rarely will you get what zillow zestimates because they use factors that Tulsa doesn't apply to.

sq footage includes all heated/cooled space.  If your garage is heated/cooled, it could be counted in the sq footage.

114k is about the right price for a 1700-2k sq ft house.

[cannon_fodder]

quote: Is the garage included in sq footage?

Generally no.  Sq. Footage is common living areas - where people are going to be.  A garage, a shed, an outside patio... not living space.

Sounds like some dolt forgot to subtract the garage.  Then, either the same or a related company did the subsequent inspections and did not want to correct it.  OR - as I often suspect, the home appraisal and inspection was totally worthless and they did NOTHING resembling what you pay hefty fees for them to do.

Contact a real estate attorney and see if you have any recourse.  Off by 33% is well worth looking into IMHO.  Even if the price was still correct, they did not do the task you hired them to do, perhaps you can get their portion of the fees back.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

quote: Is the garage included in sq footage?

Generally no.  Sq. Footage is common living areas - where people are going to be.  A garage, a shed, an outside patio... not living space.

Sounds like some dolt forgot to subtract the garage.  Then, either the same or a related company did the subsequent inspections and did not want to correct it.  OR - as I often suspect, the home appraisal and inspection was totally worthless and they did NOTHING resembling what you pay hefty fees for them to do.

Contact a real estate attorney and see if you have any recourse.  Off by 33% is well worth looking into IMHO.  Even if the price was still correct, they did not do the task you hired them to do, perhaps you can get their portion of the fees back.

i never saw any post that said he hired a buyers agent....so there wasn't any job for him to "task" to them.

Sounds like the OP doesn't do his homework on large purchases.  I have a bridge I'd like to sell him.

[cannon_fodder]

I'm no expert in real estate, but I was under the impression that between the appraiser and the inspector SOMEONE would have verified the Sq. footage.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, just seems like one of those things that would be looked at.

Roof - check.  Downspouts have little spouts - check.  Toilets flush - check.  But no check on the missing 500 feet?  Seems odd.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I'm no expert in real estate, but I was under the impression that between the appraiser and the inspector SOMEONE would have verified the Sq. footage.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong, just seems like one of those things that would be looked at.

Roof - check.  Downspouts have little spouts - check.  Toilets flush - check.  But no check on the missing 500 feet?  Seems odd.

I have a bridge to sell you too.

the selling agent doesn't owe you anything save a clear termite and anything else stated in the contract.  doing an appraisal and/or inspection is up to you.

now I know why there are buyer's agents.  I always thought it was the stupidest concept ever but I guess even idiots need to put a roof over their heads.

[sgrizzle]

The house just north of you is supposed to be 100Sqft smaller. You might look at it for comparison. I bet the 2048 number is right. You need to measure the outside of your house to get a good idea.

If your house is 2048sq ft, you paid a steal at $55.90/sq ft. If not, you paid $71.56/sq ft which I can't imagine being true.

Make sure and count any climate controlled space downstairs like a half bathroom, mudroom, etc.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

The house just north of you is supposed to be 100Sqft smaller. You might look at it for comparison. I bet the 2048 number is right. You need to measure the outside of your house to get a good idea.

If your house is 2048sq ft, you paid a steal at $55.90/sq ft. If not, you paid $71.56/sq ft which I can't imagine being true.

Make sure and count any climate controlled space downstairs like a half bathroom, mudroom, etc.

 $56 a sq ft?  What ghetto is that?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

The house just north of you is supposed to be 100Sqft smaller. You might look at it for comparison. I bet the 2048 number is right. You need to measure the outside of your house to get a good idea.

If your house is 2048sq ft, you paid a steal at $55.90/sq ft. If not, you paid $71.56/sq ft which I can't imagine being true.

Make sure and count any climate controlled space downstairs like a half bathroom, mudroom, etc.

 $56 a sq ft?  What ghetto is that?

I paid $60 at 71st & Memorial. Of course, my neighbors paid $78.

[cannon_fodder]

Inteller,

I imagine his bank required an appraisal and an inspection.  Generally each of those items have a checklist of items that BOTH PARTIES rely on.  If the inspector checked and said "roof in good condition" then both parties rely on that information. Clearly it is primarily for the bennefit of the BUYER, since the seller really doesn't care.

Thus, the inspector/appraiser's duty is to the buyer. I'm not sure you understand that or not, but I have to assume you do and just misunderstood my previous post.

My point was this:  

I assume one of those two is supposed to verify square footage.  It seems odd they would check minuet details (checking for proper down spout pavers and such) but neglect major attributes of the property.  If someone actually knows whether or not anyone is supposed to verify Sq. Footage I'd be interested in knowing.

If they are supposed to, it would be material since TheArtist has stated that he relied on that information when making a purchase decision (reasonably foreseeable that someone would rely on the inspection).  His recourse would NOT be against the seller (unless he could verify knowledge or intent to deceive), but whomever's duty it was to verify the Sq. Footage.
- - -

Oh, and I've heard all about the condition of Oklahoma bridges, that bridge isn't in the Okie State is it?

[inteller]

well I can tell you that most of the mortgage inspections are drive by.  Really they just want to make sure their aren't loaning money on a dump.  If it looks halfway decent the inspection passes.  ALl that really matters is what is on record at the courthouse.  If it is 2048 then you get taxed for 2048 or whatever.  The realtor is going to claim the same thing, and the mortage broker will ASSume the courthouse is correct.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well I can tell you that most of the mortgage inspections are drive by.  Really they just want to make sure their aren't loaning money on a dump.  If it looks halfway decent the inspection passes.  ALl that really matters is what is on record at the courthouse.  If it is 2048 then you get taxed for 2048 or whatever.  The realtor is going to claim the same thing, and the mortage broker will ASSume the courthouse is correct.

That has been my experience as well. Realtors always quote "as per courthouse". Any verbal remarks are puffing. Artist may have relied on verbals or a poor quality appraisal. The buyer pays for the appraisal usually. The appraiser is not supposed to even know the purchase price when he measures the property but someone (anxious realtor, owner or buyer) will usually tip him off so that things go smoothly. Smart realtors even leave a copy of the contract on the kitchen counter. If the price is wildly out of line a responsible appraiser will not over appraise it. If its out of line, renegotiation begins.

The problem is that an appraiser friend of mine told me that fewer and fewer appraisals are actually done on site. Banks rely on drive bys and courthouse records, no one wants to pay the price for a well done appraisal and the integrity level of appraisers is dropping to meet expectations of the parties. As a result there are fewer qualified appraisers available. I don't know that last statement to be true but sounds reasonable.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by inteller

well I can tell you that most of the mortgage inspections are drive by.  Really they just want to make sure their aren't loaning money on a dump.  If it looks halfway decent the inspection passes.  ALl that really matters is what is on record at the courthouse.  If it is 2048 then you get taxed for 2048 or whatever.  The realtor is going to claim the same thing, and the mortage broker will ASSume the courthouse is correct.

That has been my experience as well. Realtors always quote "as per courthouse". Any verbal remarks are puffing. Artist may have relied on verbals or a poor quality appraisal. The buyer pays for the appraisal usually. The appraiser is not supposed to even know the purchase price when he measures the property but someone (anxious realtor, owner or buyer) will usually tip him off so that things go smoothly. Smart realtors even leave a copy of the contract on the kitchen counter. If the price is wildly out of line a responsible appraiser will not over appraise it. If its out of line, renegotiation begins.

The problem is that an appraiser friend of mine told me that fewer and fewer appraisals are actually done on site. Banks rely on drive bys and courthouse records, no one wants to pay the price for a well done appraisal and the integrity level of appraisers is dropping to meet expectations of the parties. As a result there are fewer qualified appraisers available. I don't know that last statement to be true but sounds reasonable.

no that is true.  Ultimately the responsibility falls on the buyer.  Those little free pamphlets they pass out to new buyers as a public service say on the first page "BUYER BEWARE".

Ignorance is not an excuse.