Riverwalk Crossing Phase II and King's Landing.

[aoxamaxoa]

I am often amused by the amatuers here who really have no clue what it takes to initiate and complete a real estate development.

It is far more complex than anyone here understands.

[RecycleMichael]

I am not disagreeing with you X man, but there are other factors that are in play that will help make Riverwalk succeed.

First is a responsive city government that will do all it can to help. The Jenks city management is very tuned in to help development and they are ready to do all they can to make Riverwalk succeed.

Second, the INCOG master river plan call for a low water dam to be built just downstream of the development that should fill the river with water. The extra water will allow for water taxis to go from the east bank developments and from the big new casino. The plan also hopes for two more hotels.

I think that Riverwalk just needs to stay around until the other stuff gets done, then it will be great.

[aoxamaxoa]

Yes.

But this fact will remain. As development expands, there will be those that settle in the area based on timing issues and not necesarily good sense.

It is a good direction. But I worry about spreading these types of development too thin and scattered all over nature.

I'd go over there more often if it weren't so difficult to get to and if the area was a tad more upscale in spots.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

I am often amused by the amatuers here who really have no clue what it takes to initiate and complete a real estate development.

It is far more complex than anyone here understands.

Obviously real estate development is a complex business- and often seemingly successful businesses fail.  But the Riverwalk holds a comparative advantage over other mixed use retail developments in South Tulsa.  It caters to all ages and provides outdoor walkable space on the river.  I make no assumptions concerning the economic sense of Gordon Real Estate, but I do know after living in South Tulsa for 19 years that there is a very high demand for a retail/restaurant/bar/entertainment development on the South side of the river.  The fact that it is not quite as upscale as promised doesn't matter that much when it has no competition in South Tulsa- meaning there are no other large-scale developments that provide outdoor walkable space on the river.

[aoxamaxoa]

I told you so.....

Tulsa World partially unveils the fallacy of Riverwalk.

Developer shenanigans at taxpayer expense? Not again. First the fishery, er Aquarium, and now this bs. Jenks Oklahoma is one weirdo suburb.

Maybe Jerry Gordon should team up with Richard Roberts....City of Faithful Failures.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

I'd go over there more often if it weren't so difficult to get to and if the area was a tad more upscale in spots.

How is it difficult to get to? Compared to what?  Certainly not Woodland Hills; its always been a nightmare to get there.

I doubt I would go if it were more upscale.

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

I'd go over there more often if it weren't so difficult to get to and if the area was a tad more upscale in spots.

How is it difficult to get to? Compared to what?  Certainly not Woodland Hills; its always been a nightmare to get there.

I doubt I would go if it were more upscale.

Woodland Hills is a nightmare to get to because of lousy city engineering. Not because of location.

BTW, according to TV (channel the city is FINALLY doing something with the traffic lights to help the flow of cars east and west.

[pmcalk]

^Do you really think that Riverwalk is difficult to get to because of location?  I find it quite easy.  Where along the river would you think a good location?

[TheArtist]

I don't have any problem getting there either?

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

^Do you really think that Riverwalk is difficult to get to because of location?  I find it quite easy.  Where along the river would you think a good location?

Having gotten feedback from major retailers looking along the river, almost all of them ask "why would we want to be there?"

Sometimes, the truth is hard to accept.
I seem to recall a time when nature was a draw. Is it now believed that the only way to get activity by a river is through entertainment and retail uses?

What has happend to America's Most Beautiful city?

[pmcalk]

I am not trying to attack you, but you didn't really answer the question.  You said you would go to Riverwalk more if it weren't so difficult to get there.  I thought that was an odd statement--I have no problem getting there, and can't imagine why someone would consider it difficult. Do you really consider it difficult?

In response, you now say that most major retailers ask why they would want to locate there.  Which major retailers?  What is their concern with that location?  Kohls seems to be doing very well at that location (though on the other side of the river).  I would call them a major retailer.

[aoxamaxoa]

City Mother,

Kohl's is not on the river, they are co anchored with Wally World, and the development there is adjacent to two major arteries.

Riverwalk is a pain to drive to and when you get there it is a pain to park. Yes, it is difficult. The rest of this development is ok except that now the developer thinks it's the governments job to bail him out for his mistakes.

Philanthropist

[pmcalk]

Sorry, still not making a lot of sense to me.  Kohls is located at 93rd & Riverside; Riverwalk is directly accross the river, less than 1/2 mile from that same intersection.  Both require driving on Riverside to the 93rd street intersection, then your either turn left or right.  You're correct--technically, Kohl's is not on the river; its accross the street from Riverside, but how can going over a bridge make the location suddenly become difficult to reach?

I'm just trying to follow your logic here--you imply that the problem with Riverwalk is location, ie, difficult to reach.  Yet, 71st is more difficult, and Kohl's is about the same.  You say that major retailers don't want to locate there--is it because they (incorrectly) believe its too difficult to reach or because they don't want to be on the river itself?  Again, which major retailers are you talking about?

Obviously, there is a problem with Riverwalk, or the guy wouldn't be seeking government help.  But I cannot understand why that would be.  The place is ussually packed.  The shops and restaurants are, for the most part, good.  Sales tax revenue has shot up in Jenks, so clearly they are doing a decent business.  I have never heard a single person, except you, complain of the location or the parking.  I don't know what the problem is, but I don't think its that.

[aoxamaxoa]

Oh, the big retailers must be wrong. I am sorry for being sooooo judgemental. BTW, if you have not seen anybody here complain about the parking there, you must not be reading the same threads I do....

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

^Do you really think that Riverwalk is difficult to get to because of location?  I find it quite easy.  Where along the river would you think a good location?

Sometimes, the truth is hard to accept.
I seem to recall a time when nature was a draw. Is it now believed that the only way to get activity by a river is through entertainment and retail uses?

What has happend to America's Most Beautiful city?

Americas most beautiful city?  Are you referring to what Tulsa used to be called or was Jenks called that once?  Because as far as I know the Riverwalk is in Jenks.

As for the parking complaint you can easily find people (usually native Tulsans) who complain about parking just about anywhere, even downtown lol.  

No retail and entertainment venues are not the only way to get activity down by the river.  But seeing as we dont really have either yet, except for the Riverwalk and the casino, I dont think its going to hurt any. Plus its not as though these small developments have taken up any large portion of the river. How many total miles of river are there in the city and how much has been developed with retail and entertainment? I dont recall any recreational or great natural features being in the area where the Riverwalk is either.