Downtown NEEDS a plaza

[swake]

I love the William's Center Green, it's very well done, Tulsa's good side version of a urban plaza, on the other side is The Place One Tower's plaza, it's really, really awful, and then the civic center plaza, even worse.

[TheArtist]

I have commented on something like this before.  I think we have a great opportunity to have an incredible downtown, central square or plaza.  Most of the cities I visit have a large central plaza facing a Cathedral.  It just so happens that Tulsa has a Cathedral that rivals many that you will find in comprable cities in the US.  Aaaand it also just so happens that we have a lot of empty space in front of it. No need to tear down or move anything.  The only concern would be building some parking for the church and businesses, restraunts etc. around the plaza.  The parking garages themselves could have businesses on the first floors or on the side facing the plaza.  

 The problem with many of the so called plazas and squares that we do have downtown are 2fold.  One they dont have any businesses or attractions to visit.  Especially like cafes or shops that have seating outside.  Second none of them have a view of any sort.  They are depressingly devoid of any beauty or character.  If you were to build a plaza around the area facing the cathedral in Tulsa you would instantly have a great view of of a beautiful church and the view to the north of downtown from that area is stunning, especially at night.  The whole area could be a tourist destination where visitors can tour the nearby churches and then shop and eat etc.

 To get it started I suggest the city make a deal with the church to use their parking lot to add a central concourse through it with a fountain in the center strip of greenspace on either side, you could even still have a row of parking on either side of this. You could add a parking garage just to the North for downtown and the church on sunday.  Which is I believe where the city is thinking of adding a parking garage anyway. So having it look nice with shops and restraunt space below would be a good start right there.  

Napkin scribble, use your imagination lol.

 And if your imagination is as good as mine[] you will perhaps see something like this. Then imagine our incredible skyscrapers just to the right of each of these and you will have an idea of what we are fortunate enough to be able to have if we but only decide to do it.




or this.



What a beautiful place we could have in our downtown to eat, relax enjoy people watching, shop and have as a tourist destination.  We have the groundwork for it.  It could be done.

[AVERAGE JOE]

Artist, that's a lovely vision. If done right, it could stretch toward TCC as well.

If Holy Family would be willing to give up their surface parking lot (they tore down some great-looking, fully-occupied, old apartments to make that parking lot) in exchange for free parking in the garage on Sundays, then let's play ball.

[swake]

Are we talking Holy Family or Boston Ave Methodist?

How about both, and First Presbyterian? The Church District?

[Double A]

I dig where this thread is heading... really interesting ideas. It makes me think of Jackson Square in New Orleans or maybe Boston Commons.

[swake]

Designate an area north of the IDL up to 7th from Cheyenne to Cincinnati as The Church District, and rename Cincinnati downtown as Church Street to tie in Trinity and First Baptist.

A lot of great church buildings and a lot of bad surface parking that could be so much more.

[AVERAGE JOE]

just fyi, we already refer to the area of 10th & Boulder as "Cathedral Square". There is a tiny little park there, and it is a pretty little place. But that's not to say the concept of having attractive greenspace tucked in with the beautiful old churches all the way from 10th up to 8th.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by swake

Are we talking Holy Family or Boston Ave Methodist?

How about both, and First Presbyterian? The Church District?

 Holy Family, it is the only Cathedral in the region.  The other churches or places of worship may be in the Cathedral style but to "officially" be a Cathedral a church must have the Cathedra or Bishops Chair.  Just a bit of info []
 

[carltonplace]

There is certainly plenty of room to build here. I kind of like calling it "Cathedral Square"

[bokworker]

I cannot see a problem with the parking garges allowing use by the general public in the evening and on weekends. The Philtower parking garage is open on Sundays for churchgoers to use already. As I walk around downtown in the evenings and on weekends virtually all of the parking garages are empty.... parking downtown should be a non-issue except in the 7 am to 5 pm/ Mon-Fri timeframe.

[sgrizzle]

Ironically enough, DTU has a plan that was never realized called "cathedral square" that involved housing, retail, and greenspaces in the same place you're talking about.

[pmcalk]

Why is it that Tulsa seems to have such problems maintaining fountains?  The fountain at 18th & Boulder now contains plants; the main mall fountain of course is gone (and the small one replacing it is apparently a car magnet); I cannot remember the last time the fountain by the library had water in it; Swan Lake is still struggling to replace theirs.

I would love to see a fountain/green space at Cathedral square.  Of course, I think replacing a surface lot was just about anything is an improvement.  However, nothing spells desertion (ie, don't go there) more than an empty fountain, IMO.  I would rather see nothing there than a fountain turned off.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

Why is it that Tulsa seems to have such problems maintaining fountains?  The fountain at 18th & Boulder now contains plants; the main mall fountain of course is gone (and the small one replacing it is apparently a car magnet); I cannot remember the last time the fountain by the library had water in it; Swan Lake is still struggling to replace theirs.

I've wondered if I was the only one who had noticed that.  To add to the list, I think there is/was a large fountain in the middle of the city hall plaza/concrete slab that hasn't had water in it for ten years or more.  The fountains in the below-surface area outside of First Place Tower are off a good deal and even when they are on, they don't look so hot because they are clogged up with lime deposits.  Even the water features at Williams Center Green seem to be off or dry fairly often.  Does the little fountain at Cathedral Square work?

[AVERAGE JOE]

The little Cathedral Square fountain does work. At least, just about every time I've driven by and glanced over, it was working.

They finally got the Tracy Park fountain working again after a long time. So that's good news.

I have no idea why we can't keep a fountain going in this town. Maybe we have hard water and it clogs up the pipes? Our freeze-thaw cycle, maybe?

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

The little Cathedral Square fountain does work. At least, just about every time I've driven by and glanced over, it was working.

They finally got the Tracy Park fountain working again after a long time. So that's good news.

I have no idea why we can't keep a fountain going in this town. Maybe we have hard water and it clogs up the pipes? Our freeze-thaw cycle, maybe?

Just drove by the Cathedral Square fountain and confirmed what I had thought.  I couldn't tell from the street whether there is water in it, but it definitely was not operating.