Justice For Sale..... "How Much do we Budget?"

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by Kiah

quote:Originally posted by TulsaSooner

So with the news of the approval of the 8%+ raises......For whoever was asking about the salary levels, it's in the TW today.  Also, I've been told by someone who should know that the majority of TPD would fall between the $65k - $85 range in salary.

After the 8% pay raises (which do not include the merit increases and, presumably, overtime):

Ofcr $42,470 - $59,760
Corp $53,098 - $66,295
Srgt $59,503 - $69,610
Cptn $74,540 - $80,623
Majr $84,858 - $91,782
Dep Chief $100,275 - $108,457

It also lists the salaries for OKC and BA if you're interested.

Let's not forget subsudized daily commutes to and from work, longevity pay, uniform and other allowances, an incredible package of benefits, especially retirement benefits -- not to mention the standard 'overtime' abuses and the ability to use city property at private security jobs.

And we get to risk our lives every day for the citizens of Tulsa![]

[TulsaSooner]

quote:And we get to risk our lives every day for the citizens of Tulsa![]

I always hear this, but I would say that is a pretty low risk.  Fortunately, we don't have many officers killed in the line of duty.

[rwarn17588]

Fact: It's been 10 years since a Tulsa cop was killed in the line of duty (corrected).

Six cops have died in the last 25 years. Only two were by murder. The other four were from accidents.

http://www.tpdmemorial.com/html/those_we_lost.html

If you're a steelworker, garbage collector, trucker, farmer (my former profession), roofer or taxi driver, you have a much higher chance of being killed on the job.

http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/careerbytes/CBArticle.aspx?articleID=421&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=16bf0e545ab84d679d3312b81da9a60c-212769845-TU-4

[RecycleMichael]

Let's not take this conversation to attacking or defending the job or the degree of danger of the police.

The thread was about pay and the process for setting the pay grades.

I am glad that the Mayor was able to find a resolution to this issue and the police spokespersons were quoted as being happy with the settlement.

I knew she would find a way.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Fact: It's been 10 years since a Tulsa cop was killed in the line of duty (corrected).

Six cops have died in the last 25 years. Only two were by murder. The other four were from accidents.

http://www.tpdmemorial.com/html/those_we_lost.html

If you're a steelworker, garbage collector, trucker, farmer (my former profession), roofer or taxi driver, you have a much higher chance of being killed on the job.

http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/careerbytes/CBArticle.aspx?articleID=421&cbRecursionCnt=1&cbsid=16bf0e545ab84d679d3312b81da9a60c-212769845-TU-4

Thank God, there hasn't been a line of duty death. I don't think it has been from lack of trying on the criminals part.  Our training and protection is better than it has ever been.  

Actually, One officer did get shot at the Lakewood incident but his vest protected him.

"There by the grace of God go I."

I am glad the mayor decided to believe the independent arbitrator and give the FOP the raise it deserved.  Now with the FOP already signing next years contract it will free up the mayor to focus on the other city employees and get them closer to market value.

Oh and Rwan,

When you get scared and call 911 we'll be there for you.

[Conan71]

I'm glad you guys got the raise.  It doesn't solve the crime problem in itself, but as I've mentioned countless times on other threads, if we really want better public safety, we have to be willing, as citizens, to pay for it.

[RecycleMichael]

Conan is right but it goes further than that. It is how much we are willing to pay and what priority we place on it compared to other needs and wants of our community.

Let me give another example.

Everybody wants the cleanest and safest drinking water possible. But we also don't want our monthly utility bills to be so high that we can't afford to live in that community.

The government has a responsibility to make sure it is safe and that it meets agreed upon standards. The citizens decide how much of a priority new plants and additional safeguards are.

Our water is completely safe in Tulsa.

It is handled by professionals with degrees who work very hard at their jobs to protect us. Yet some citizens feel a need to buy a home water filter or bottled water. They want more than just what is expected and they are willing to pay extra, sometimes much, much more for that.

We have the same formula with police. It would be great if we had a policemen on every corner or every driveway, but most would not be willing to pay for that level.

We expect basic levels of protection and any deviation is unacceptable, yet many people also install an alarm, get a dog, buy a gun or learn self-defense.

The trick is to have honest dialogue between citizens and public officials. The mistake is to use questionable tactics and emotional ploys for self-gain.

[Rico]

RM I agree with what you have said.... However, for anyone that is still having flashbacks of LaFortuna and Company, it is sometimes very difficult to imagine your Government being anything other than more of the same...

Trust is a two way street.. It will take time for the Citizens of Tulsa to learn to trust Mayor Taylor...

The most recent example I can supply you with is the following:

"Prior to the election of Mayor Taylor I posed several specific questions to her..One of which was... When you deliver your State of the City Speech.. will this be delivered to the Tulsa Metro Chamber or the Citizens of Tulsa..?"

Her response:"When I give a State of the City Speech it would be given at a location that is accessible to the entire City"

The results of this answer were demonstrated by her first State of the City Speech.. Given at the Doubletree at Warren Place.. To... the Tulsa Metro Chamber of Commerce..

I consider myself a fair person... I did not make a big stink out of this.. But the Police issue was something entirely different...

We must have a competent Police Force.. A Larger Police Force.. Or all the Lipstick in China will not sell this City....!

[Rico]

P.S. Congrats to the Police on their raise....

rwarn: come to think of it last time I dialed 911 they did send a garbage collector...[8D]

[Conan71]

RM-

Let me expand on this a little.

People expect things of their government and seem to forget that they are responsible for funding that government.  Money doesn't appear out of thin air to run our cities, counties, states, and country.

"I want safer streets, I don't want to pay any more taxes."

"I want better schools for my kids, but I'm being pounded on property taxes as it is."

"I want safe water, but those crooks at the city are already gouging my eyes out for water, sewer, and trash."

The reality is, when we want more or better services, we have to realize there is a sacrifice.  We don't necessarily need to increase revenue, so much as we need to change the priorities on how our revenue is spent.  I wasn't against the BOK Center for the sake of being against it, I felt like the timing wasn't right and our other priorities have not been suffieciently met.  

Our teachers still recieve sub-par pay compared to other cities, our DA's office says it is under-staffed, under-funded, and over-worked.  We have over 1500 convicted criminals in DOC custody who are still in county jails around the state because DOC does not have enough cells for them all.  Our police force says they are under-staffed and under-paid to handle the rise in crime.

Why are we prioritizing so much funding for a behemoth center to ostensibly attract all these concerts, conventions, and pro sports teams when Tulsa still does not have the demographics nor types of activities and entertainment that are requisite to compete with popular convention spots like Vegas, Atlantic City, Orlando, etc.?

Does the public really need to provide the majority of funding for a $1bln river project (there is no way this will be completed for less)? Despite what the developers are telling us, it won't make one bit of difference in whether or not my daughter's decide to live here after college or somewhere else.

Do we really need someone on the city payroll as an ED director?  If the Chamber is doing such a poor job of attracting new business, then business owners need to stop paying their dues, and let it shrivel up or get them working again.

The primary things in my opinion that make a city liveable are: a low crime rate, a great street and utility infrastructure, great public education, a positive business climate, attractive housing with good code enforcement, a low cost of living, and finally great recreational outlets.

I believe the pay raise for the police is a token of good faith from the city in showing we want to do something about the crime rate and hopefully will help make this an attractive career choice for college grads, and will help retain our veterans through retirement.  

Before we appropriate another penny of public funding for another "signature" piece of public/private archetecture, let's get another 100 officers out in the field, let's provide money and incentives for better public education, let's keep up with our streets, etc. etc.

IOW- I don't mind paying my fair share of the funding it takes to make a city run, be attractive, and liveable, I just don't want to see us overlook the real priorities in our haste to build monoliths that really don't make one bit of difference as to why people would or wouldn't make Tulsa their home.

[Rico]

Great Post Conan...

If I can just throw a little kerosene on the fire....

quote"Do we really need someone on the city payroll as an ED director? If the Chamber is doing such a poor job of attracting new business, then business owners need to stop paying their dues, and let it shrivel up or get them working again."end quote.

The new ED Director is paid a large amount.. But the Metro Chamber is paid even more..

The Metro Chamber has been the source of many problems... yet there seems to be a fear of any Politician saying anything negative..

Someone needs to drop them like a lead pipe..

[Conan71]

Rico,

Pardon my ignorance, but isn't the Chamber funded entirely by private funds in the form of dues and contributions from area business?  I was also thinking DTU is funded in a like manner by downtown property owners and tennants.  

If, in fact, this is entirely how they are funded, then if contributions started to slow, we'd find out if they are just incompetent or entirely irrelevant.  IOW- if they wanted to keep their cushy ivory tower jobs, as contributions fall off, they would need to actually make things happen, or face extinction.

[RecycleMichael]

Great points, Conan.

I agree that the pay raise is a show of good faith by all parties. I also believe the police need the support of the community to do their job effectively.

This conversation needs more than this thread. It is the fundamental role of government to do what the public wants it to do.

Let's continue the discussion on another thread.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Rico,

Pardon my ignorance, but isn't the Chamber funded entirely by private funds in the form of dues and contributions from area business?  I was also thinking DTU is funded in a like manner by downtown property owners and tennants.  

If, in fact, this is entirely how they are funded, then if contributions started to slow, we'd find out if they are just incompetent or entirely irrelevant.  IOW- if they wanted to keep their cushy ivory tower jobs, as contributions fall off, they would need to actually make things happen, or face extinction.

You are half right... To the best of my knowledge DTU is funded privately.

On the other hand the Metro Chamber is publicly funded through the Hotel and Motel Tax... To the tune of approximately $2 Million or more a year...

True they also have monies that come from "Dues and Contributions"..

I am always surprised that this is not common knowledge among taxpayers...

[Double A]

You'd think with 2 mil in annual taxpayer subsidies we wouldn't have to pay 30 bucks to see da Mare give the state of the city speech?