Council talks Illegal Immigration Enforcement

[Double A]

KOTV - 9/12/2006 10:39 AM - Updated: 9/12/2006 5:17 PM
Tulsa's city council is talking about illegal immigration and whether the city has a role in discouraging it.

News on 6 reporter Emory Bryan says the debate on illegal immigration has come to city hall - and here it's mainly about lost taxes and the cost to city government. No one at the city is sure how big a problem it is - they're researching that - but the council took the first step Tuesday towards an ordinance preventing companies from hiring illegals.

The Tulsa city council was divided on what to do, but seemed united on wanting to do something. Councilor Bill Christiansen: "We need to set the example in Tulsa." Councilor Jack Henderson: "My problem is the enforcement of it, how are you going to enforce it?"

The talk about the about the possibility of illegal immigrants working on city projects, drew a crowd. Most of the spectators were part of a group pushing for an illegal immigration ordinance. David O'Connor with Citizens Fair And Clean Government: "It is an overall problem of a lot of third world countries coming here excuse the pun here because Tulsa is a sanctuary city."

The council discussed whether the city knew if any of its contractors hired illegal immigrants - and the city staff said there was no one checking. There is no city law requiring contract employees to be documented, because the city defers to the federal law that requires it.

Several of the city councilors mentioned a video as part of the reason they want to do something. Announcer: "Unmarked cash. Unpaid taxes. Uninsured workers. Unsafe conditions." The video came from the Carpenters Union, which believe illegals and people who work for cash are undermining good wages. Adrian Privett with the Carpenters Union: "There are other cities in the country that have adopted ordinances to curb this."

While the city of Tulsa doesn't watch over companies building public projects to see who they're hiring, some councilors think the city should. Councilor Rick Westcott: "Whether or not it imposes an undue burden on small businesses to comply with the ordinance, this may sound harsh, but I don't think that needs to be part of the equation."

The city council is going to wait for Tulsa's Public Works Department to do some checking on what it can require of contractors and their subcontractors.

[alanoftulsa]

We need to give them the "Rawhide" treatment,

Head them up and move them out...


The USA has become a welfare package for the illegals...  and crime is getting crazy in Tulsa....  let them get here the legal way, then they can pay their own hospital bills and maybe they will buy automobile insurance...

[jamesrage]

Its great that something might be done to curb illegal immigration at a local level.

[Hometown]

I'll be glad when the election is over and this red herring issue has been moved to the back burner.  

The discussion on immigration reminds me of a conversation I had with a handy man a few months back.  I had hired him to do some work around my home.  Anyway, I was exchanging a little banter with him when he launched into a tirade about undocumented workers and "Mexicans."  Since my partner is a Latino and he and I were paying this guy's rent I thought his remarks were particularly rude but I took the opportunity to try and say a few positive things about Latinos and Latin culture.  Meanwhile, this handy man (who happened to be an overweight, older White man) was doing really lousy work.  I looked him over and I thought, "You really don't need any competition, do you?"

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

I'll be glad when the election is over and this red herring issue has been moved to the back burner.  

The discussion on immigration reminds me of a conversation I had with a handy man a few months back.  I had hired him to do some work around my home.  Anyway, I was exchanging a little banter with him when he launched into a tirade about undocumented workers and "Mexicans."  Since my partner is a Latino and he and I were paying this guy's rent I thought his remarks were particularly rude but I took the opportunity to try and say a few positive things about Latinos and Latin culture.  Meanwhile, this handy man (who happened to be an overweight, older White man) was doing really lousy work.  I looked him over and I thought, "You really don't need any competition, do you?"

how about we send you all the tax bills paying for illegal's healthcare and see if its still a "red herring" issue.

obviously you are white collar, I am too.  But today its carpenters, tomorrow its middle management.  if someone undercuts you on wages because they dont play by the rules you have to, how does that seem fair?  thats what illegals are doing.  they work for lower cash only wages, then dont pay taxes.

if we SEVERELY punish those who hire illegals, the illegals will go away.  Its that simple.  buts its going to take some witch hunts and rais on companies around here to make sure they are playing straight.  I think Tulsa should subsidize an ICE officer

I predict that you and I will live to see the day when immigration is dramatically increased in order to prop up our system and to fund Baby Boomer retirement.  

The truth is that Tulsa is experiencing a labor crisis.  Have you tried to hire any workers recently?  It's gotten to the point that it doesn't matter how much money you have to work with, there are next to no available workers to hire.

Tulsa has so many pressing problems.  Taking over a federal responsibility when there is no compelling reason to do so does not make sense.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

I'll be glad when the election is over and this red herring issue has been moved to the back burner.  

The discussion on immigration reminds me of a conversation I had with a handy man a few months back.  I had hired him to do some work around my home.  Anyway, I was exchanging a little banter with him when he launched into a tirade about undocumented workers and "Mexicans."  Since my partner is a Latino and he and I were paying this guy's rent I thought his remarks were particularly rude but I took the opportunity to try and say a few positive things about Latinos and Latin culture.  Meanwhile, this handy man (who happened to be an overweight, older White man) was doing really lousy work.  I looked him over and I thought, "You really don't need any competition, do you?"

So what does this lazy, fat, white person have to do with the hords of illegals abusing our system? Oh, I see, the old argument that U.S. citizens can't or won't do the work of an illegal. You may want the issue to go away, Hometown, but it won't.

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

I'll be glad when the election is over and this red herring issue has been moved to the back burner.  

A red herring would suggest a unimportant issue.This is a very important issue that can get worse and worse as we ignore it and cost us more and more money to deal with it.The traitors who hire illegals should lose their property, severely fined and tossed in prison for trying to encourage illegal immigration.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

I'll be glad when the election is over and this red herring issue has been moved to the back burner.  

A red herring would suggest a unimportant issue.This is a very important issue that can get worse and worse as we ignore it and cost us more and more money to deal with it.The traitors who hire illegals should lose their property, severely fined and tossed in prison for trying to encourage illegal immigration.

This red herring does not mean unimportant, it means a distraction from things that can actually be done. How does a city that is struggling to meet its basic obligations take on an issue of national importance like immigration? Unfair? Yes. Unusually unfair...probably not. Are we losing taxes? Yes. But no more unfair or income damaging than age discrimination, Indian preference, gambling or pretty girls getting TV anchor jobs.

If its hard to find labor now, wait till we run off or even discourage illegals. Its capitalism and the free market baby, hold on for dear life.

[Jammie]

Interesting subject. Although I rarely exchange any political views, this doesn't even seem political to me. They're ILLEGALS. The name says it all. Drugs are illegal and murder is illegal so that should tell us something.

Sorry to hear that Tulsa is plagued with them, too. We have them in a nearby town. They always ship a group up from Texas to work on a chicken ranch. The owner doesn't like to pay more then minimum wage or offer his employees access to health care or anything. So, he takes his chances with illegals. The van load full of them rent ONE house in the town. By the time they're caught, which is usually two or three months later, they've demolished the house. So much for renting to them and all their friends. Of course they can live on minimum wage. Each one pays twenty dollars a month for rent. They all twenty get together and buy one washer and one dryer and one fridge, etc. The last house they lived in had to be burned down after three months of them occupying it. They're then caught and shipped back home and it's only a few days later another group of illegals makes their way up here.

A few years ago a group of illegals nearly bankrupted our neighboring county. They were all illegal and were heading for Minn. for jobs that were given to them illegally. They had an awful accident and several were killed. The little county had to pay for all their medical bills because of course they carry no insurance on their vehicles or on themselves. A few of them were killed and the county was also responsible for their funerals since they again carry no life insurance on themselves.

Most of them refuse to speak English because we've coddled them into believing that WE must learn their language even though they're in OUR country illegally. Their children are tutored in our schools because it is our responsibility to educate them because of course they deserve it. The school not dare turn in the family because that would just be wrong. Our neighboring state tried to pass a law that the county courthouses would be responsible for turning illegals in when they came to them for the money to pay for their medical care. They will not be doing that out of fear that the illegals will then not get the medical care they need. Try going to Mexico and see how long they'll care for you and cater to you in this way.

I'm sure most of you have seen the laws that Mexico has for people who are not their citizens. We wouldn't even be allowed to live near the ocean because that's reserved ONLY for Mexicans. Yet, we give them California. It makes absolutely no sense at all and there's no argument that can make it right. They're here ILLEGALLY and need to go home.[}:)] They're a drain on our system and we have enough problems taking care of our own legal Americans.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Taking over a federal responsibility when there is no compelling reason to do so does not make sense.

hey listen bub, the feds aren't going to do anything.  To say "let the feds take care of it" is a cop out.  Get rid of the illegals and let them become someone else's problem.  let whatever town they migrate to deal with the problem by "letting the feds deal with it"

Yeah...Someone get a rope! (sarcasm)
Are we prepared for the lawsuits Jammie referred to? (Use that Boeing money maybe?) How physically do we enforce these federal laws with local police? Seriously, politics and humanity aside, I don't see how a community, specifically ours, will take on this task without great exposure.

[snopes]

The minute we start becoming afraid of "exposure" we're cooked. The shameless lawsuits need to be met head on and dealt with; they are as bad (if not worse) than the illegal immigration problem.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

I'll be glad when the election is over and this red herring issue has been moved to the back burner.

I agree. Ru$h and his buds have the right wingers whipped into a frenzy over this just like they have over the whole "they're trying to take Christmas away from us!" bullcrap. You didn't see all this whining in the pre-Ru$h days even though the problem existed then and in proportionally the same degree. But the ditto-heads follow Ru$h and the right wing politicians follow the ditto-heads. Oh, well. It sells books and keeps the donations rolling in. And that, after all is what Ru$h and his buds are all about. It's free enterprise at its finest.

[snopes]

Wrong Papaspot. I can't stand Rush; from what I understand, he's in total agreement with Bush, which is "Open them thar borders for that free enterprise!" Also, it was the hundreds of thousands of illegals and their supporters marching in the streets across the U.S. demanding they have the same rights as citizens that made me begin to scrutinize this problem more closely.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by snopes

Wrong Papaspot. I can't stand Rush; from what I understand, he's in total agreement with Bush, which is "Open them thar borders for that free enterprise!" Also, it was the hundreds of thousands of illegals and their supporters marching in the streets across the U.S. demanding they have the same rights as citizens that made me begin to scrutinize this problem more closely.

Wrong. The right wingers were all in a tiff long before anybody marched. And Ru$h isn't the only right wing propagandist stirring up the right wingers for self serving reasons.

[snopes]

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

quote:Originally posted by snopes

Wrong Papaspot. I can't stand Rush; from what I understand, he's in total agreement with Bush, which is "Open them thar borders for that free enterprise!" Also, it was the hundreds of thousands of illegals and their supporters marching in the streets across the U.S. demanding they have the same rights as citizens that made me begin to scrutinize this problem more closely.

Wrong. The right wingers were all in a tiff long before anybody marched. And Ru$h isn't the only right wing propagandist stirring up the right wingers for self serving reasons.

I see the Republicans as much of a problem here with this issue (if not more so) than the Democrats. After all, it was Ronald Reagan who granted amnesty in the first place. And George Bush has done no better with his plans for amnesty and refusal to close the borders. Honestly, I could care less about who brought the issue up, I would just like it resolved. Do you disagree that this is a problem? It appears the only problem you have is that the issue was brought up at all. I see a real problem here and I'm not a right winger.