9/11 Thread NO FUNNY BUSINESS

[iplaw]

Okay.  As fun at it is to make fun of Alt, the mods on the board are not keen on humor anymore.  So keep it on topic and resist the urge to take pot shots so this thread doesn't get put on lock down too.

[iplaw]

quote:
Originally posted by altruismsuffers

IPLAW you may be right about the past flights not being domestic. It does not matter. The reason that no planes were scrambled for domestic passenger flights in the past would be because domestic passenger flights stay squaking and stay on path. This would give no reason to scramble. Then on 9/11 they have 4 domestic flights loose contact, loose transponders, and go off course, and they don't scramble even after a plane has hit the building!?

Personal attack removed. If you persist in adding personal insults in your posts, the entire post can be wiped out.

That's pure speculation on your part. You have no information to back up that assertion and are ASSUMING what protocol was. There was no uniform method for dealing with what happen on 9/11 until AFTER the events transpired and POST 9/11 protocols were established.

They had no idea how many hijacked planes were in the air and out of the THOUSANDS of flights taking off and landing at that time of the day the confusion was immeasurable. So to say that ATC knew exactly how many planes were a threat that needed intervention is impermissible hindsight on your part by assuming that in UNFORSEEN crisis situations people behave like robots and make flawless decisions as they follow NONEXISTENT PROTOCOLS. Remember also that there were ONLY 14 jets patroling ADIZs that day FOR THE ENTIRE US MAINLAND.

Can you imagine the outcry from the masses had we shot down aircraft without sufficient cause? Look at the Payne Stewart FAA report and see how long it took them to actually VERIFY that something was indeed wrong. Three separate flybys were done before a definitive answer was given.

Once the gravity of the situation was understood jets were appropriately patroling confined ADIZs over NYC and DC.

Even if they had scrambled planes to intercept after the first plane hit there were STANDING POLICIES that kept jets from going supersonic. So to say that they could have reached the second plane in time is SPECULATION.

quote:

This does not make a lick of sense ESPECIALLY since the war games they were practicing spefically involved these incidents.

Again a half truth. These response drills were meant to deal with proper and measured responses to ACCIDENTAL impacts with buildings not MULTIPLE INTENTIONAL ACTS OF TERRORISM. A Pentagon spokesperson was even quoted as saying that drills were not even performed using the Pentagon as a target because such an attack was too far fetched.

[altruismsuffers]

So you make it seem like a few planes going off course would just throw the whole FAA a loop.  They are in charge of tracking ALL THE PLANES, that is there job, that is why there are so few airplane accidents because they do their job and they do it right. But uh, I really just feel like I am wasting my time debating here...

Put the "conspiracy" stuff aside, is there anyone that questions the investigation?  The Bush and Cheney cabal did not even want to investigate the worst terrorist attack on American soil in history!?  Let me say this again, they attempted to block any investigation into 9/11.  Investigations began within weeks of the Pearl Harbor attack and the JFK assasination.  Why did it take 14 months for the first hearing to begin over 9/11?  Is that not fishy to anyone else?  Finally when the families demanded answers they formed the 9/11 commission and then appointed Henry Kissinger to lead the investigation!?  Well he had to step down because he had direct corporate ties to the BIN LADINS!  Silly president Bush for appointing him, good try though.  Then finally they get the commission rolling and give them a huge budget of $3 million dollars!?  After a little moaning from the families again the huge budget jumped to $14 million dollars, hurrah!  Mind you there was $100 million dollars spent to investigate Bill Clintons "relations", but only $14 million allocated to the worst terrorist attack in history?  Something smells funny no?  So with all the in depth research and 1,000's of testimonials they were given 1 year to decide what happened on 9/11.  Kean himself, the chair of the commission said "we were set-up to fail".  WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GONNA REALIZE THAT WE ARE BEING LIED TO!?

 Anyways why am I here arguing, someone will make a fart joke and this entire paragraph will be irrelevant.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by altruismsuffers

So you make it seem like a few planes going off course would just throw the whole FAA a loop.  They are in charge of tracking ALL THE PLANES, that is there job, that is why there are so few airplane accidents because they do their job and they do it right. But uh, I really just feel like I am wasting my time debating here...

The hijacking of four airplanes is a catastrophy that no living ATC employee had ever experienced PRE 9/11.  No policies existed to guide these individiuals through what happened that they.  ATCs are not supermen with infinite knowledge who behave like fortune telling computers.

Hijacking have been a part of commercial air travel from the beginning.  Hijackings pre 9/11 were very predictable as most involved ransom or transit to a country giving immunity.  Never before had a commercial jet been used as a weapon with no regard for innocent lives on the plane.

You simply grasp as straws and pidegon hole disjointed facts into your theory.  You want to believe this so badly you will believe anything to make it true.
 

quote:
Put the "conspiracy" stuff aside, is there anyone that questions the investigation?  The Bush and Cheney cabal did not even want to investigate the worst terrorist attack on American soil in history!?  

It was investigated.  You didn't like the investigation.  Most if not all of the events were transparent enough to not warrant spending millions of dollars wasting time and tax payer dollars chasing flights of fancy.

The only things your ilk want investigated are things like explosions, squibbs, WT7, etc. that have been soundly proven as lacking sufficient basis to investigate.

quote:
Let me say this again, they attempted to block any investigation into 9/11.  Investigations began within weeks of the Pearl Harbor attack and the JFK assasination.  Why did it take 14 months for the first hearing to begin over 9/11?  Is that not fishy to anyone else?  

No.  Forensic examinations of debris occured immediately.  Comparing those two events to what happend on 9/11 is fallacious in and of itself.  

quote:
Finally when the families demanded answers they formed the 9/11 commission and then appointed Henry Kissinger to lead the investigation!?  

The investigation would have occurred despite their complaints.  The purpose of that investigation was solve intelligence flaws and procedural inefficencies that hampered recovery efforts and miscommunications that resulted in the 9/11 happening, they were NEVER ABOUT questioning who perpetrated the attack in the  first place or exploring far fetched CT garbage, nor should they have been.

quote:
Well he had to step down because he had direct corporate ties to the BIN LADINS!  

quote:
Silly president Bush for appointing him, good try though.  Then finally they get the commission rolling and give them a huge budget of $3 million dollars!?  After a little moaning from the families again the huge budget jumped to $14 million dollars, hurrah!  Mind you there was $100 million dollars spent to investigate Bill Clintons "relations", but only $14 million allocated to the worst terrorist attack in history?  Something smells funny no?  So with all the in depth research and 1,000's of testimonials they were given 1 year to decide what happened on 9/11.  Kean himself, the chair of the commission said "we were set-up to fail".  WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GONNA REALIZE THAT WE ARE BEING LIED TO!?

Anyways why am I here arguing, someone will make a fart joke and this entire paragraph will be irrelevant.

BS.  More CT crap.  Here is the story that explains why he stepped down.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/kissinger.resigns/

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by altruismsuffers

Put the "conspiracy" stuff aside, is there anyone that questions the investigation?

Oh, yeah, there's some relatively minor questions about the investigation. There are a lot more major questions about how things were handled before and after. The problem is that there are enough people like you going around spewing misinformation and downright FALSE information that people are distracted from the LEGITIMATE questions. Your camp persists in spreading misleading, distorted and false evidence to the point that you've shot any credibility that you could ever hope to have. The whole thing's become a joke.

[Brownsfan68]

YO ALT.   You can tell  people like papaspot and iplaw all the info in the world that you want to about evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.  It wont sink in with these guys.   Guys like iplaw and papaspot will believe anything that mainstream media and the government will tell them.  If NBC told them that 1+1=3, they would believe it.  These types of people are asleep and brainwashed with constant lies.  It feels good though that tens of millions of Americans and Hundreds of millions around the world are aware of what IS REALLY GOING ON IN THE WORLD.

[iplaw]

quote:
It feels good though that tens of millions of Americans and Hundreds of millions around the world are aware of what IS REALLY GOING ON IN THE WORLD.

Prove it.

You haven't been around very long Brownsfan and haven't bothered to read Alt's posts or you wouldn't be jumping into bed with him so quickly.  He embarasses himself ROUTINELY by posting garbage that gets DEBUNKED soundly
without much effort.

Also he enjoys PLAGAIRIZED material when he can't make arguments for himself.  Look no further than our discussion over momentum.

I suggest you step up and provide some "evidence" of your own.  You said you had irrefutable proof that 9/11 was an inside job, but you have failed at even attempting to justify that belief.

BTW, what exactly passes for "evidence" in your world?

[Brownsfan68]

Prove it.

You haven't been around very long Brownsfan and haven't bothered to read Alt's posts or you wouldn't be jumping into bed with him so quickly. He embarasses himself ROUTINELY by posting garbage that gets DEBUNKED soundly
without much effort.

Also he enjoys PLAGAIRIZED material when he can't make arguments for himself. Look no further than our discussion over momentum.

I suggest you step up and provide some "evidence" of your own. You said you had irrefutable proof that 9/11 was an inside job, but you have failed at even attempting to justify that belief.

BTW, what exactly passes for "evidence" in your world?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since you are going to go the "evidence" route.   Prove me this.

What evidence is there that 19 hijackers actually hijacked the planes?

What evidence is there that the towers fell down because of melted steel?

What evidence is there that a PASSENGER AIRLINE JET crashed into the pentagon?

What evidence does our government have that there were WMD's in Iraq?

[altruismsuffers]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by altruismsuffers

So you make it seem like a few planes going off course would just throw the whole FAA a loop.  They are in charge of tracking ALL THE PLANES, that is there job, that is why there are so few airplane accidents because they do their job and they do it right. But uh, I really just feel like I am wasting my time debating here...

The hijacking of four airplanes is a catastrophy that no living ATC employee had ever experienced PRE 9/11.  No policies existed to guide these individiuals through what happened that they.  ATCs are not supermen with infinite knowledge who behave like fortune telling computers.

Hijacking have been a part of commercial air travel from the beginning.  Hijackings pre 9/11 were very predictable as most involved ransom or transit to a country giving immunity.  Never before had a commercial jet been used as a weapon with no regard for innocent lives on the plane.

You simply grasp as straws and pidegon hole disjointed facts into your theory.  You want to believe this so badly you will believe anything to make it true.

Yeah they never thought of this, how could they have no...I guess these people, like you have never heard of Operation Bojinka which was a plan ten years earlier to blow up planes and CRASH A PLAN IN TO THE CIA.  I guess these people that are supposed to be protecting our skies never got to read the August PDBthat specifically said "BIN LADIN DETERMIINED TO STRIKE IN THE US" Not only that is said "Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate bin Laden since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."" Yousef was the alleged mastermind of the Bojinka plot to Crash a plane into the CIA building.  It also says "Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft" and it also says "FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York".  So my point is, this is just a small bit of the direct information that should have warned against such an attack.  Even if they were unprepared at the beginning of the attack they should have know INSTANTLY this was an attack on the United States and should have had jets in the air within minutes and on those planes tails.  They should have been prepared.


 

quote:
Put the "conspiracy" stuff aside, is there anyone that questions the investigation?  The Bush and Cheney cabal did not even want to investigate the worst terrorist attack on American soil in history!?  

It was investigated.  You didn't like the investigation.  Most if not all of the events were transparent enough to not warrant spending millions of dollars wasting time and tax payer dollars chasing flights of fancy.

The only things your ilk want investigated are things like explosions, squibbs, WT7, etc. that have been soundly proven as lacking sufficient basis to investigate.

The only reason it was investigated was because of the families who pushed for an investigation.  Even the article you linked says Bush had a longstanding opposition to an independent probe of the events leading up to the September 11 terrorist attacks. Of course again another assumption that I only want the bombs, squibs etc. investigated.  I would like the families who submitted 100's of questions regarding their loved ones deaths to be aswered.  I have respect for the dead and their loved ones.  I want there supspicions and questions put to rest so they can have proper closure.

quote:
Let me say this again, they attempted to block any investigation into 9/11.  Investigations began within weeks of the Pearl Harbor attack and the JFK assasination.  Why did it take 14 months for the first hearing to begin over 9/11?  Is that not fishy to anyone else?  

No.  Forensic examinations of debris occured immediately.  Comparing those two events to what happend on 9/11 is fallacious in and of itself.  

Again you provide no evidence of any kind of forensic examinations of the debirs.  I compare the events because they are major history bullets that had a huge affect on the United States.  This being one of the big if not the biggest event in recent history should have called for an immediate investigation.

quote:
Finally when the families demanded answers they formed the 9/11 commission and then appointed Henry Kissinger to lead the investigation!?  

The investigation would have occurred despite their complaints.  The purpose of that investigation was solve intelligence flaws and procedural inefficencies that hampered recovery efforts and miscommunications that resulted in the 9/11 happening, they were NEVER ABOUT questioning who perpetrated the attack in the  first place or exploring far fetched CT garbage, nor should they have been.

Once againn refer to the article you gave be about Kissinger, Bush and Cheney were blocking any investigation until the outcry was too much.  And again, this was the worst terrorist attack on American soil ever, and you really don't think we should investigate who pulled this off?  

quote:
Well he had to step down because he had direct corporate ties to the BIN LADINS!  

quote:
Silly president Bush for appointing him, good try though.  Then finally they get the commission rolling and give them a huge budget of $3 million dollars!?  After a little moaning from the families again the huge budget jumped to $14 million dollars, hurrah!  Mind you there was $100 million dollars spent to investigate Bill Clintons "relations", but only $14 million allocated to the worst terrorist attack in history?  Something smells funny no?  So with all the in depth research and 1,000's of testimonials they were given 1 year to decide what happened on 9/11.  Kean himself, the chair of the commission said "we were set-up to fail".  WHEN ARE YOU PEOPLE GONNA REALIZE THAT WE ARE BEING LIED TO!?

Anyways why am I here arguing, someone will make a fart joke and this entire paragraph will be irrelevant.

BS.  More CT crap.  Here is the story that explains why he stepped down.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/kissinger.resigns/


Well it just so happen that one of the Jersey Girls asked about his connection to Saudi Arabia, specifically the Bin Ladins and then he just happened to step down, coincidence?
Here is a snipet review of Press For Truth"The Jersey Girls are immediately incensed when the ultimate gatekeeper, Henry Kissinger, is appointed to head the commission. When they meet with him, a Jersey Girl asks if Kissinger's consulting firm has any Saudi Arabian clients named bin Laden. This question had the intended effect. Kissinger announced he could not take the position."  

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by Brownsfan68

YO ALT.   You can tell  people like papaspot and iplaw all the info in the world that you want to about evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.  It wont sink in with these guys.   Guys like iplaw and papaspot will believe anything that mainstream media and the government will tell them.  If NBC told them that 1+1=3, they would believe it.  These types of people are asleep and brainwashed with constant lies.  It feels good though that tens of millions of Americans and Hundreds of millions around the world are aware of what IS REALLY GOING ON IN THE WORLD.

Yo, Bro...pull your head out. IF and when you offer a shred of CREDIBLE EVIDENCE, I'll be more than happy to look at it. So far, all your camp's offered is pure BULLCRAP. Just because iplaw and I aren't fooled by the smoke and mirrors, it doesn't support your self-serving accusations. Some of us like to see the SCIENCE behind any claims. You don't offer science--you offer hocus pocus. Only the most gullible and weak minded are fooled by the lies.

(I also don't believe the world is flat or that Elvis was seen last week in a Qwicki-Mart.)

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by Brownsfan68



Since you are going to go the "evidence" route.   Prove me this.

What evidence is there that 19 hijackers actually hijacked the planes?

What evidence is there that the towers fell down because of melted steel?

What evidence is there that a PASSENGER AIRLINE JET crashed into the pentagon?

What evidence does our government have that there were WMD's in Iraq?

Can you say "smoke screen"? I THOUGHT ya could DO it!

[iplaw]

quote:
Yeah they never thought of this, how could they have no...I guess these people, like you have never heard of Operation Bojinka which was a plan ten years earlier to blow up planes and CRASH A PLAN IN TO THE CIA.

Yeah.  Preventing the hijacking of ONE PLANE before it ever took off CANNOT be analogized to the hijacking and crashing of FOUR PLANES into FOUR separate structures which had NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE.  Nice try though, but CONFLATION is not an acceptable form of logic.

quote:
I guess these people that are supposed to be protecting our skies never got to read the August PDBthat specifically said "BIN LADIN DETERMIINED TO STRIKE IN THE US" Not only that is said "Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate bin Laden since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."" Yousef was the alleged mastermind of the Bojinka plot to Crash a plane into the CIA building. It also says "Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft" and it also says "FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York".

Where in any of this does the PDB illuminate a plan to use multiple commerical airplanes as bombs?  Hijackings are routine MO from terrorists, using them as missiles IS NOT.  More conflation.

quote:
So my point is, this is just a small bit of the direct information that should have warned against such an attack. Even if they were unprepared at the beginning of the attack they should have know INSTANTLY this was an attack on the United States and should have had jets in the air within minutes and on those planes tails. They should have been prepared.

PDB + a failed hijacking that never materialized cannot be imputed as sufficient foreknowledge of 9/11.  You again are using impermissble hindisight.

quote:
The only reason it was investigated was because of the families who pushed for an investigation. Even the article you linked says Bush had a longstanding opposition to an independent probe of the events leading up to the September 11 terrorist attacks. Of course again another assumption that I only want the bombs, squibs etc. investigated. I would like the families who submitted 100's of questions regarding their loved ones deaths to be aswered. I have respect for the dead and their loved ones. I want there supspicions and questions put to rest so they can have proper closure.

We've been down this road a hundred times now.  Most people interested in any form of extended investigation are NOT ON BOARD WITH YOUR insane CT garbage.  You are piggybacking on the legitimate concerns of 9/11 families and are manipulating their concerns to fit into your CT.  Shameful behavior on your part.

quote:
And again, this was the worst terrorist attack on American soil ever, and you really don't think we should investigate who pulled this off?

We know who did it.  It was the guy on that video you saw about a month ago giving final rites and prayers to the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who hijacked the planes on 9/11.  

quote:
Again you provide no evidence of any kind of forensic examinations of the debirs.

I think you mean debris.

CAUTION!! CREDENTIALED NON-KOOK SOURCES

Microstructural Analysis of A36 Steel from WTC Building 7
Link to Contractor who performed the Forensic Study
MIT Study
Testimony of Dr. W. Gene Corley

quote:
Well it just so happen that one of the Jersey Girls asked about his connection to Saudi Arabia, specifically the Bin Ladins and then he just happened to step down, coincidence?

Can you please point me to a credible news source that can substantiate this story, or is this another piece of "evidence" from one of your "factual" websites.  Forgive me if I don't trust your research based upon our past experiences.

[Brownsfan68]

http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/evidence.html

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa11.html

http://www.icssa.org/911evidence.html

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0206/S00071.htm

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/refusing_the_9_11_evidence.html


http://uci.net/~goto/9-11/


http://www.flcv.com/index911.html

http://www.rense.com/general68/mrev.htm



Here is some evidence with some credible INDEPENDENT source.

[iplaw]

[xx(]

You haven't posted anything but CT websites.  You MUST be new to the game.

***CREDENTIALED SOURCES ONLY***

The fact that you linked to RENSE.COM scares me.  Bet you don't like them Jews there neither do ya'?  Them zionist bast*rds who pulled WTC 7...

What's your definition of "INDEPENDENT?"

[Brownsfan68]

***CREDENTIALED SOURCES ONLY***


give me some of your examples of "credentialed" sources.


independent sources are to me sources that are not influneced by corporate eliteist, lobbyist or politicians.

Now with this rense dude,  I dont agree with everything he says but Mr. Silverstein did say that he ordered to "pull"  WTC building 7.  It was on PBS.