Absolved: The alcohol made me do it...

[iplaw]

As with your other posts aox...yawn...

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

BTW, If N. Korea tests a nuclear weapon in the next few days you can kiss this story goodbye, as with any hopes of a Dem victory in November...so you'd better make the best of it now.

Oh, I expect something pretty dramatic and terrifying will be announced by the White House between now and the election. That's Bush's mantra. "When the going gets tough, scare the hell out of 'em."

So Bush is controlling Kim Jong Il now...that's a CT to beat all CTs.

[aoxamaxoa]

Back on topic.....

Now Foley sez he was molested as a teen:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061003/ap_on_go_co/congressman_e_mails;_ylt=Am_iec8HqdLuQ9NXWIYy58es0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/03/foley.scandal/index.html

Uh Oh Denny
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/04/washington/04cnd-hastert.html?hp&ex=1160020800&en=a3fbb0550d8f4163&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Foley acquaintances question alcoholism:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/foley_alcoholism;_ylt=Ai5VMMmPBgZRhY3oNJiRqxSs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--


AP: Aide Says He Reported Foley 2 Years Ago...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/03/foley.scandal/index.html


It's all too naughty.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

BTW, If N. Korea tests a nuclear weapon in the next few days you can kiss this story goodbye, as with any hopes of a Dem victory in November...so you'd better make the best of it now.

Oh, I expect something pretty dramatic and terrifying will be announced by the White House between now and the election. That's Bush's mantra. "When the going gets tough, scare the hell out of 'em."

So Bush is controlling Kim Jong Il now...that's a CT to beat all CTs.

Come on, iplaw, I KNOW you're smarter than that. (Nice spin, though.) What Kim Jong Il does or doesn't do has nothing to do with when Rove orders the next Big Scare. That's based on the political needs of the Republican Party...not on any actual danger.

[aoxamaxoa]

HMMMM!

Will we see what this is all about on Countdown? O'Reilly? Who besides Randi?Is there something here? Stay tuned....

"Jeff Gannon, the former gay male escort/White House Corespondent, is scheduled to be on live with Randi TODAY in the 3rd hour of her show (5:30pm ET, Thursday)."

[iplaw]

quote:
Come on, iplaw, I KNOW you're smarter than that. (Nice spin, though.) What Kim Jong Il does or doesn't do has nothing to do with when Rove orders the next Big Scare. That's based on the political needs of the Republican Party...not on any actual danger.

So Rove will be telling them when to test the bomb?

[okiebybirth]

Istook aide may be victim in page scandal.

http://www.newsok.com/article/2951137/

[iplaw]

How can someone who was 18 be a victim?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

...Anyone that knew about this and kept quiet should resign immediately and hang their heads in shame for the rest of their lives...

 And that would be Congressman Dennis Hastert (R), Speaker of the House of Representatives.

Other than political hopefulness, what do you have to back this up?  No one has any proof that Hastert knew of the IMs that ABC published, if that were the case he would already be gone.

Didn't say that he did have knowledge of the IMs.  He had knowledge of the emails, which were disturbing.  Staffers are now saying they pleaded with him to intervene in '03.  He should have acted. And he probably will be gone, if not before the election, then before the end of the year.

Based on available information, all that was known until the more salacious IM's were published this week was the email exchange of Foley asking a Louisiana page when his birthday was, if he had a photo of himself, etc.  That was the "overly-friendly" email exchange referred to.  Apparently, Foley was told to cease and desist, and there's no evidence there was further contact with any other pages afterwards.

Perhaps those who approached Foley thought they were handling it in the correct manner- it bordered on impropriety and they would keep him on a tight leash.  I would think and hope, had they been privvy to the more sexually-charged exchanges, they would have booted him right then and there.

Here is how similar situations are dealt with in the private sector:  I used to be a regional sales manager for a large chemical company.  A part of "management school" at the company was several hours on sexual harassment.  Our policy with similar circumstances as the "friendly exchange" would have been to have a sit down privately with the perpetrator in question, tell them to stop and any further contact with the "offendee" or similar contact with another employee would result in termination.  Had it been more blatant like the IM's that have now been released, that would have resulted in immediate termination.

However, Congress is not a private or publicly held corportation.  It is a national institution.  As a matter of not breaching the public trust, IMO, the Republicans should have ousted him when they smelled smoke instead of waiting and hoping there wasn't something deeper.  I suppose it's all in how the public wishes to percieve what constitutes a cover-up.  ("That depends on what your definition of 'is' is" [])

Here's two of the timelines I was able to find on the matter:

Seattle Times:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003287804_webfoleytime03.html

DNC version:

http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2006/10/4/215850/807

Reading both timelines (though the DNC version neglects to mention that the FBI found it a non-issue when they reviewed the emails in July) I see that there may have been Democrat operatives in the background who were waiting for the opportune time to blow this up, which makes them just as culpable in sitting on information until they could use it as fodder to bolster their aspirations in the November mid-terms, even though the "resident of the neighborhood" at the bar says he/she/it is neutral.

I'm just curious why it was the emails were given to a journalist who is left leaning, instead of higher ups in the Democratic party for it to be dealt with as a disciplinary matter in Congress, not a public humiliation and outcry.  That makes as yet un-named Democrats part of a cover-up as well if they waited for any length of time, instead of calling for him to be ousted when they became privvy to this.

Here's my point: I think the Republicans grossly under-estimated how far Foley's actions may have gone and they should have dealt with him more severely.  I'll bet anyone a box of Krispy Kremes that Foley, Crane, and Studds are not the only legislators to have ever had hanky-panky going on with pages and that the un-spoken policy.  

A friend of mine was a page in the early '80's in Washington and he told me upon returning that there were rumors of more than one representative or senator that was hot for young 'uns, including a Democrat senator from Oklahoma.  IOW- rumors like the Foley rumor that started in 2001, were nothing new, it was a sick part of D.C. power culture.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

How can someone who was 18 be a victim?

Because it sells newspapers, and gains viewership on TV news channels. It also has the effect on people who only scan headlines with a cursory glance, that guys like Istook were involved in the scandal.

Brace yourself, there will be more former pages coming out of the woodwork looking for media attention and money.

The DNC is sharpening their fangs on this one.  I think their "October Surprise" came a few days early.

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71



 Apparently, Foley was told to cease and desist, and there's no evidence there was further contact with any other pages afterwards.

Where did you get your information that he was ever told to cease and desist?  Why did the only Democrat on the board not get informed of what was uncovered?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by okiebybirth

quote:Originally posted by Conan71



 Apparently, Foley was told to cease and desist, and there's no evidence there was further contact with any other pages afterwards.

Where did you get your information that he was ever told to cease and desist?  Why did the only Democrat on the board not get informed of what was uncovered?

First link second post of mine back about the Seattle Times timeline, I'll quote it and save you the time:

"2005

Foley e-mails 16-year-old former page from Louisiana, asks what he wants for his birthday and requests a photograph.

Former Louisiana page, describing one e-mail as "sick," forwards Foley e-mails to staff member for Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-La.

Alexander contacts page's parents.

Alexander staff members meet with staff of House Speaker Dennis Hastert and Clerk of the House, who direct Rep. John Shimkus, chairman of the House Page Board, to investigate.

Shimkus and clerk tell Foley to cease contact with former page."

I couldn't tell you why or why not the only Democrat says he wasn't informed.  Why did they contact Hastert's aides instead of Hastert?

[Bledsoe]

Supposed experts continue to claim that Foley may have not committed a crime.  

See:  http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/LegalCenter/story?id=2529811&page=1


I find this very hard to agree with if the law of other jurisdictions is anything like Oklahoma.  

See my related post:  http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5070


The LA Times in fact sates:

Some reports indicate that Foley sent messages to pages from his Palm Beach-area home. In that event, Florida might be able to apply its tough laws even if Foley were communicating with a youth elsewhere.

Besides its age-of-consent rules, Florida also makes it a felony to use the Internet to "seduce, solicit, lure or entice" a child to have sex or to attempt to do so.

The state's courts recently upheld a case against a Virginia man who was attempting to seduce a child in Florida. The man tried to argue that the solicitation occurred in his home state. But a court held that Florida authorities could pursue him, according to Jay Howell, a Jacksonville lawyer and former director of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.


See:  http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-legal5oct05,1,7063316.story?track=rss&ctrack=1&cset=true  

This report makes it sound like Florida law is very similar to Oklahoma.  I would expect DC and California to  be similar.  These law professor types and defense lawyers need to hear from a prosecutor.

On a related note Oklahoma law clearly also makes it a crime to give or offer liquor to a minor.  Parents have even been charged.  See 21 O.S.Section 256  § 856. Delinquent Minor - Contributing to Delinquency

[iplaw]

How many times are you going to repost this crap.  ABC has officially removed the accusation that the page was underage.  IT WAS NOT A CRIME, THE PAGE WAS 18.

[Conan71]

Bledsoe, why are you making suppositions based on Oklahoma law?  None of the actions supposedly happened in Oklahoma?

Of course, I like the way ABC did their story, how he likely won't face charges (between the lines insinuation: because he's a big, mean, sick, perverted Republican).

The majority of the people aren't following the story, just the headlines which is what the DNC is hoping for.