Turnpike U-turn crash

[patric]

And yet another incident on the AP wire:

Trooper injured in attempt of U-turn

PERRY -- A state trooper was injured Monday when his vehicle was hit from behind when he attempted to make a U-turn on the Cimarron Turnpike.

Trooper Bruce Brooks, 58, was traveling east on the turnpike about 10:45 a.m. Monday when he turned on his lights and sirens and began to make a U-turn to catch a speeding vehicle in the westbound lanes, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol reported.

As he began the U-turn, his vehicle was hit from behind by a 1999 Ford pickup driven by Darren Clonts, 24, of Blackwell.

Brooks sought treatment for a shoulder injury, but Clonts wasn't injured, the OHP reported.

The accident was similar to a crash that killed a state trooper and a truck driver on Interstate 44 near Claremore on Oct. 1.

In that crash, Trooper William McClendon was attempting to make a U-turn on the interstate when his cruiser was struck by a tractor-trailer driven by Hussein Hajiege Osman, 25.

A Highway Patrol report states that the emergency lights on McClendon's patrol car were activated, but when he attempted to make the U-turn -- which it labeled "improper" -- through a gap in the concrete median
wall, his vehicle was struck in the left rear by Osman's 2002 Peterbilt.

The truck skidded about 94 feet before hitting the patrol car at 50 mph, according to the report.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=061212_Ne_A17_Troop67594

[patric]

OHP Reviewing U-Turn Procedures After Crashes
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=116585

TULSA, Okla. (AP) Three traffic accidents since October involving an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper making a U-turn has the OHP reviewing its U-turn procedures.

Trooper William McClendon and truck driver Hussein Osman were killed October 1st when Osman crashed into the patrol car as McClendon attempted a U-turn on I-44 near Claremore.

Troopers Jason Fox and Bruce Brooks were injured last Monday in separate crashes on U.S. 377 and on the Cimarron Turnpike.

OHP Captain Chris West says if changes are needed in the procedure they will be made.

A report on the crash that killed McClendon and Hussein says both drivers made unsafe or illegal actions but that McClendon's U-turn likely initiated the crash.

West says the accident involving Trooper Fox was primarily Fox's fault while the collision involving Brooks was due to the other driver's inattention.

...and more:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=061218_Ne_A15_Crash29040

[patric]

Sound familiar?


It could take a couple of weeks to finish an investigation into a double-fatality crash that involved a Rogers County sheriff's deputy, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol said.
The OHP has interviewed more than 50 witnesses in connection with the Friday collision, which killed Amanda Kelley, 20, and Doris McQueen, 45, both of Claremore.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070712_1_A7_hPrel10317

Doris McQueen, 45, was driving west on a county road as (Deputy) Batt was traveling north on Oklahoma 66, OHP reports show. Batt was on his way to assist a partner when his vehicle hit McQueen's after McQueen failed to yield at a stop sign about 10 p.m. Friday, the OHP said. Batt's vehicle caught fire and burned, the report shows.

(ed. this is not the same as "running a stop sign," which she was not accused of doing.)

It is unclear whether Batt's emergency lights and sirens were activated at the time of the collision, Randolph said.
"Part of the reason they don't know that lights and sirens were on is because the car completely burned," she said.

Determining if lights were on during a crash is something the NTSB does with ease, and under much worse conditions, automotive investigations arent that uncommon: http://www.harristechnical.com/articles/lamp.pdf
http://www.facts-1.com/whatisaccrecon.htm

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

Sound familiar?


It could take a couple of weeks to finish an investigation into a double-fatality crash that involved a Rogers County sheriff's deputy, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol said.
The OHP has interviewed more than 50 witnesses in connection with the Friday collision, which killed Amanda Kelley, 20, and Doris McQueen, 45, both of Claremore.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070712_1_A7_hPrel10317

Doris McQueen, 45, was driving west on a county road as (Deputy) Batt was traveling north on Oklahoma 66, OHP reports show. Batt was on his way to assist a partner when his vehicle hit McQueen's after McQueen failed to yield at a stop sign about 10 p.m. Friday, the OHP said. Batt's vehicle caught fire and burned, the report shows.

(ed. this is not the same as "running a stop sign," which she was not accused of doing.)

It is unclear whether Batt's emergency lights and sirens were activated at the time of the collision, Randolph said.
"Part of the reason they don't know that lights and sirens were on is because the car completely burned," she said.

Determining if lights were on during a crash is something the NTSB does with ease, and under much worse conditions, automotive investigations arent that uncommon: http://www.harristechnical.com/articles/lamp.pdf
http://www.facts-1.com/whatisaccrecon.htm

While the lamp examination article is great in theory and shows brand spankin' new bulbs with no dirt or oxidation, you have to realize both those cars burned.  You don't see that stuff that easy as in the article.  Additionally, most of that stuff gets sent to a lab, which isn't sitting around with nothing to do waiting on stuff to come in.  That stuff waits its turn, then gets examined, thus the time delay.

Also, those are old light bulbs (from the Edison days).  The new police light bars and strobes are LED, which is completely different.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Also, those are old light bulbs (from the Edison days).  The new police light bars and strobes are LED, which is completely different.

Im sure you know that there are incandescent light bars still in use, even by TPD.  Even then, most dash indicators are still incandescent.
Do you have personal knowledge as to which type of  light bar was used on the deputy's car?

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Also, those are old light bulbs (from the Edison days).  The new police light bars and strobes are LED, which is completely different.

Im sure you know that there are incandescent light bars still in use, even by TPD.  Even then, most dash indicators are still incandescent.
Do you have personal knowledge as to which type of  light bar was used on the deputy's car?

I have no knowledge of the wreck other then what was in the newspaper (right along with the rest of us).  I also believe, if I interpret the newspaper article correctly, that the deputy should have been blood tested in accordance with state statute.  Not that I have any reason to believe he was under the influence of anything.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

I have no knowledge of the wreck other then what was in the newspaper (right along with the rest of us).  I also believe, if I interpret the newspaper article correctly, that the deputy should have been blood tested in accordance with state statute.  Not that I have any reason to believe he was under the influence of anything.

The Whirled did mention that "authorities ordered blood taken from Batt to determine whether he was driving impaired" a week after the accident, so we'll see, but I think the most obvious point is that the OHP is taking extraordinary steps in an investigation that would be normally closed in only hours.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

I have no knowledge of the wreck other then what was in the newspaper (right along with the rest of us).  I also believe, if I interpret the newspaper article correctly, that the deputy should have been blood tested in accordance with state statute.  Not that I have any reason to believe he was under the influence of anything.

The Whirled did mention that "authorities ordered blood taken from Batt to determine whether he was driving impaired" a week after the accident, so we'll see, but I think the most obvious point is that the OHP is taking extraordinary steps in an investigation that would be normally closed in only hours.

I'm not aware of any fatality collision being "closed in only hours."  Even a single car driver-fell-asleep takes 2-3 days with nothing going to the lab.  Throw the lab into the mix and you are talking a couple weeks (depending on tests).  Throw in the medical examiner and you add a couple more weeks (depending on tests).  Throw in blood testing, that is usually a minimum of 40-days, with 6-months not unusual.  

Remember, all these places where various tests are conducted post investigation aren't just sitting around with nothing to do.  Many are doing various tests for all law enforcement agencies across the state (in the case of blood tests), so OHP, Tulsa and everyone else just has to wait in line along with everyone else.  One agency's fatality doesn't get any more preference then anyone else's.

I thought the trooper-crossing-the-median investigation was well done, even though it took a lot of time.  The investigation was very fair and unbiased.

[patric]

Trucker's Estate Sues Oklahoma Highway Patrol

CLAREMORE, Okla. (AP) The estate of an Ohio truck driver killed in a crash with an Oklahoma state trooper last year is now suing the Oklahoma Highway Patrol.

The wrongful death lawsuit says Trooper William McClendon was negligent and caused the October 2006 crash that killed both him and Hussein Osman of Columbus, Ohio.

The crash occurred as McClendon was making a U-turn through the median on Interstate 44 near Claremore, Oklahoma.

An investigation found Osman was driving his semi 15 miles per hour faster than the posted speed limit and failed to yield to an emergency vehicle.

But authorities have said the trooper's U-turn likely initiated the collision.

Related stories:
10/1/2006 http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=111975
10/2/2006 http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=112035

That's some hubris on OHP's part to claim the victim was speeding in a construction zone.  There was one on the other side of the barrier, but reports said the trucker had been going under the posted limit on his side.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

Trucker's Estate Sues Oklahoma Highway Patrol

CLAREMORE, Okla. (AP) The estate of an Ohio truck driver killed in a crash with an Oklahoma state trooper last year is now suing the Oklahoma Highway Patrol.

The wrongful death lawsuit says Trooper William McClendon was negligent and caused the October 2006 crash that killed both him and Hussein Osman of Columbus, Ohio.

The crash occurred as McClendon was making a U-turn through the median on Interstate 44 near Claremore, Oklahoma.

An investigation found Osman was driving his semi 15 miles per hour faster than the posted speed limit and failed to yield to an emergency vehicle.

But authorities have said the trooper's U-turn likely initiated the collision.

Related stories:
10/1/2006 http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=111975
10/2/2006 http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=112035

That's some hubris on OHP's part to claim the victim was speeding in a construction zone.  There was one on the other side of the barrier, but reports said the trucker had been going under the posted limit on his side.

Being able to determine speed at the scene of a crash is simply a matter of physics.  Vehicles will travel so far to their point of rest based on their weight and based on their speed prior to the wreck.  Police can take measurements from the scene and use simple software to determine speeds.  Plus, many vehicles and trucks have black boxes that will record speeds, which police can download and read.

Police don't determine FAULT at a wreck.  They report who committed what traffic violations, whether it be one driver of both drivers (which they have done here).  It is up to insurance companies to determine fault, then pay out based on that fault.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Police don't determine FAULT at a wreck.  They report who committed what traffic violations, whether it be one driver of both drivers (which they have done here).  It is up to insurance companies to determine fault

If this wreck were summed up as "Failure to yield to an emergency vehicle" it would provide a pretty distorted view of the facts, wouldnt it?

You missed the point that the OHP claim of this occurring inside a construction zone was false.  They really hurt their credibility on this case, rather than use it as something everyone could learn from.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Police don't determine FAULT at a wreck.  They report who committed what traffic violations, whether it be one driver of both drivers (which they have done here).  It is up to insurance companies to determine fault

If this wreck were summed up as "Failure to yield to an emergency vehicle" it would provide a pretty distorted view of the facts, wouldnt it?

You missed the point that the OHP claim of this occurring inside a construction zone was false.  They really hurt their credibility on this case, rather than use it as something everyone could learn from.

I've not seen the report, so I don't know about the construction zone.  Needless to say, ODOT determines construction zones, not OHP, and I've often wondered why some places are designated that way.  ODOT could surely confirm or deny the construction zone portion.

quote: If this wreck were summed up as "Failure to yield to an emergency vehicle" it would provide a pretty distorted view of the facts, wouldnt it?

I'm not sure what you mean.  I thought the quote by OHP that their trooper was ultimately the cause of the crash put the responsibility on them.  But, they were also correct in identifying other violations, mainly the brakes on the truck.

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Police don't determine FAULT at a wreck.  They report who committed what traffic violations, whether it be one driver of both drivers (which they have done here).  It is up to insurance companies to determine fault

If this wreck were summed up as "Failure to yield to an emergency vehicle" it would provide a pretty distorted view of the facts, wouldnt it?

You missed the point that the OHP claim of this occurring inside a construction zone was false.  They really hurt their credibility on this case, rather than use it as something everyone could learn from.

I've not seen the report, so I don't know about the construction zone.  Needless to say, ODOT determines construction zones, not OHP, and I've often wondered why some places are designated that way.  ODOT could surely confirm or deny the construction zone portion.

quote: If this wreck were summed up as "Failure to yield to an emergency vehicle" it would provide a pretty distorted view of the facts, wouldnt it?

I'm not sure what you mean.  I thought the quote by OHP that their trooper was ultimately the cause of the crash put the responsibility on them.  But, they were also correct in identifying other violations, mainly the brakes on the truck.

Wilbur, just being curious. Are you a transport planner?

[Conan71]

He's wit da po-po 5-0

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

He's wit da po-po 5-0

You know, that means nothing to me. [8D]