Starting a war with Iran?

[iplaw]

quote:
But we didn't play the smart card which would have been to go after AlQeuda in Afghanistan and stay after his group till they expired or were diluted. No we had to be the cop and go whip a little capitalist democracy on Iraq by personalizing its problems and going for the "simple" solution. Now we are in the middle of a full blown tragic bloodfest.

I still believe that Iran was our ultimate end game when we invaded Iraq...set up democracies on either side of them and let the pressure squeeze them instead of our military.

quote:
Resolved: 1. Pull all non-combatant Halliburton type reconstruction operations out of the country, pick a side, and fight the damn war or 2. Pull all Americans out and let the country revert to middle ages civilization.

Ding ding ding...we have a winner folks.  Couldn't agree more! Or should I say "It's time to get er done"

[shadows]

The clouds of the third world war are quite evident as the 45's is called up for training.  In the past it has been a sign of the intent of the leaders representing this nation.     An attack on Iran, regardless of our noble justification, will divide the world again which will bring destruction beyond belief.

Many of our citizens will go to their churches tomorrow.  A sermon on who was given the middle-east lands forever should be a subject of the day.  These people of the mid-east believe and will fight to their deaths the idea that this land will remain theirs forever.   They will make ever effort to defend what they believe was given to them by a creator.   ............"don't harm the oil or the wine".........

The promise that from their seeds will sprout many nations, has not been lost in the present political system we have devised.   We have not prevailed in the establishment of any nation nor have we changed them to our system of corruption.

Our worst fault is that we cannot see our image in the mirror.    

[iplaw]

quote:
or have we changed them to our system of corruption.

Eat me.  I'll buy you a ticket to whatever rat hole of a 3rd world country you'd rather be in if you promise to leave today.  I'll even pay first class.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

I've never been fearful of truth telling. "honest to the point of wrecklessness" , that's the axman. Only about %1 of yours truly posts are deadicated towards making fun. And that's what it is that makes this forum so tribal.

I will continue to rant and rage against the tyranny of the Busheviks and those that defend their utter incompetence.

That 1% is funny and sometimes deserved. I wasn't targetting your posts particularly. What is bothersome to me is the use of namecalling and character assassination instead of facing strong arguments. Its obvious that there are at least two sides to each issue and no one budges much, but do you see the parallels to whats happening nationally in this discussion? When we don't acknowledge the obvious truths because of our longstanding political beliefs we can't act on those truths.

Truth 1. Bush and his people are large and in charge. Failed, incompetent or not is pretty much irrelevant. The public must show their displeasure and pressure their reps, if they disagree, but the reality is that he can push the damn button if he so pleases. Sure the Dems took legislative control but that is a slow, clumsy vehicle for change. He must be dealt with as a leader and influenced to see his mistakes. You don't change someone's mind by calling them a moron. We also must learn from this that electing leaders is more than whether or not a guy is perceived as a "good guy" and someone "I could have a beer with" or "one of us". He was elected because of anything but his competence as a CEO.

Truth 2. His administration has failed us as a leader in the war against terrorism but refuses to change its course. He is stubborn and always has been. Invoking the argument that he has succeeded because there were no more major attacks on the US mainland is just as lame as saying the previous leaders thwarted terrorism because there were no attacks during their terms. Do you see Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter as great bulwarks against terrorism on the mainland? Then drop that specious argument and face the fact that we are in a war that did nothing to protect us and may have imperiled our future.

Truth 3. The war in Iraq is now a civil war between many factions. It is in danger of cascading into a regional war that will force some of our more uncomfortable allies to turn against us. How many countries are still fighting with us? Will Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia suddenly start to see it more to their advantage to ally with Syria and Iran to stop the spread of this cancer? Especially if we leave during its growth? My understanding is painfully inadequate of the politics but isn't the fact that its a free-for-all a basic truth now?

Aren't these basic truths?

[aoxamaxoa]

I face the arguments through:
1) ignoring
2) link posting
3) baiting and
4) blasting

This thread dates back several months and you can see my temperament all the way through....

Take it or leave it,
The axman (I earned the nickname)

[mdunn]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:
or have we changed them to our system of corruption.

Eat me.  I'll buy you a ticket to whatever rat hole of a 3rd world country you'd rather be in if you promise to leave today.  I'll even pay first class.

Ill pitch in for half of his ticket!

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

I face the arguments through:
1) ignoring
2) link posting
3) baiting and
4) blasting

This thread dates back several months and you can see my temperament all the way through....

Take it or leave it,
The axman (I earned the nickname)

Once again, not targetting you. But how is your plan working? Is it any different than "Bushevik" SOP? What is the goal to be then. If it is to use the forums as a viral process to win the 60% of the population that sits in the middle, moving back and forth to decide elections, has that been successful? I guess I'm a little confused about the goals of each side on this forum. If it is to amuse, well I prefer Molly Ivins, Fox,Colbert and Jon Stewart. If it is to educate and persuade, thats just not happening. Not even sure why I post other than to hear myself think. Is that it for you guys too?

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

I face the arguments through:
1) ignoring
2) link posting
3) baiting and
4) blasting

This thread dates back several months and you can see my temperament all the way through....

Take it or leave it,
The axman (I earned the nickname)

Once again, not targetting you. But how is your plan working? Is it any different than "Bushevik" SOP? What is the goal to be then. If it is to use the forums as a viral process to win the 60% of the population that sits in the middle, moving back and forth to decide elections, has that been successful? I guess I'm a little confused about the goals of each side on this forum. If it is to amuse, well I prefer Molly Ivins, Fox,Colbert and Jon Stewart. If it is to educate and persuade, thats just not happening. Not even sure why I post other than to hear myself think. Is that it for you guys too?

Oh, I have no plan other than to help change the rhetoric and to cause the neccesary change in extremist right wing shenanigans....

[iplaw]

quote:
Is that it for you guys too?

I sort of like working over the less fortunate (alt, shadows...)[]

I do think we have shared some good ideas that both you and I have agreed upon in the last couple of days...

[waterboy]

You learn as much from opposition and adversity as you do from your friends and successes.

[aoxamaxoa]

Bush Is Hiding the Ball on Iran

By Robert Parry
February 2, 2007

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/020207.html

"Last April, in the New Yorker, investigative reporter Seymour Hersh described the Bush administration's preliminary planning for bombing Iran. In September, Time magazine said a U.S. bombing campaign could strike as many as 1,500 targets in Iran."

I've been hearing on a few talk shows it's 700 targets in 60 days.

Madness......

[aoxamaxoa]

The usual accomplices....


Won't Get Fooled Again?
NYT, networks offer scant skepticism on Iran claims


http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3037

http://www.internetweekly.org/2007/02/cartoon_dick_cheneys_hogwash_primer.html

[iplaw]

Is it just me or does President Tom:



look like:

Ringo Starr in Caveman?

[aoxamaxoa]

Norquist: Bush's Advisers Telling Him 'Invade Iran. Then Everyone Will See How Smart We Are'


http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/07/unger-article/

'The president's neoconservative advisers are effectively saying, 'Invade Iran. Then everyone will see how smart we are.'

[tim huntzinger]

I do not think there will be an invasion.  I would expect a bombing campaign and a naval blockade by the international community.