Flooding the West Bank

[AVERAGE JOE]

Last week, I made a post about the 12-mile "lake" stretching back to Sand Springs the Channels folks are quick to push, but would be underwhelming at best as far as development.

Now we get confirmation that the west bank of the river would be flooded in order to maintain the width of the river after building the islands. I thought everyone should see what that entails.

The area in red would meet a watery grave:



The model presented last week seemed to confirm the area I've outlined, since the new "and improved" west bank had railroad tracks running right along the bank. The thin gray line parallel to the red area is the railroad tracks.

That's a lot of land, folks.

What gets me is finally -- FINALLY -- we'd have acquired the concrete plant that has occupied one of the most prime riverfront sites in the city for decades, and the first thing we'd do with it is... put it underwater.



The concrete plant is in red above. That is a ton of prime riverfront land. Look at the width of it versus the width of the river itself! The purple area is the River West Festival Park, where we just had Oktoberfest. The concrete plant is bigger than the festival grounds -- and we'd lose both, along with the Westport apartments to boot.

If the Channels plan proposes to acquire all that riverfront property, why not just buy it and develop it straighaway instead of putting it underwater?

[BixB]

That would make way too much sense Joe.  And it's not what they thought up around their kitchen table, so it's not "out of the box" enough and just won't do!

[carltonplace]

What do you  mean Joe? What could we possibly use that land for?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

What do you  mean Joe? What could we possibly use that land for?

Oh No! A plan for the river? That doesn't exist! Everyone not named warren is a uneducated nitwit with no plans for the future!

Anyone else wondering if JK Warren came up with the Channels idea after he passed out watching "Field Of Dreams."

[TheArtist]

Yes thats a plan for the river.  But, its veeery lacking in many areas.  Now dont climb all over me about the Channels listing the things like the price tag etc. that are wrong with it.  But there are some features I like about the channels. like the density and the closeness to the water that the development has. If you look at the incog plan the shops and stuff in the lower left are about a block or more from the river itself!  Whats the point, thats not river development?

I would like to see something with the density and attractiveness of the "Channels on the shore"  or "The Bridges of St Paul"  The incog plan is so boring and worthless a use of that area of the river.  It would limit further development in that area that has such a great view of downtown and could be an area of real attraction for the city and others visiting.  Not a lame version of the Riverwalk even further from the river bank.  I mean why put the development so far away from the river, kind of defeats the purpose of even having waterfront development. That is not something that is going to help us catch up to what other cities are doing on their river fronts unless we like, almost, staying up with Wichita and Fort Smith.    

The one section I like most about the incog plan are their ideas for the 71st area on the east bank. I also like that it has things for the suburbs downstream.  But I think Tulsa itself could use some sort of great utilization of its river. Something that will REALLY be wonderful.  Not this version of the incog. I look at it and want to yawn.

[akupetsky]

According to the paper today:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=061024_Ne_A1_Railb41178

Flooding the river may cause problems with the railroad bridge at 11th.

I have had a difficult time conceptualizing how they could flood out so much land on the west bank, but still not effect the 11th street bridge.  Recently, I learned that they aren't really flooding the west bank--they are going to dig it up, and use the dirt for the island.  

After that they are thinking of digging up Bixby, and relocating to Jenks, which will be moving to Supulpa.  Get your shovels ready.  Our river will look so much better once we move all the dirt around.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Yes thats a plan for the river.  But, its veeery lacking in many areas.  Now dont climb all over me about the Channels listing the things like the price tag etc. that are wrong with it.  But there are some features I like about the channels. like the density and the closeness to the water that the development has. If you look at the incog plan the shops and stuff in the lower left are about a block or more from the river itself!  Whats the point, thats not river development?

I would like to see something with the density and attractiveness of the "Channels on the shore"  or "The Bridges of St Paul"  The incog plan is so boring and worthless a use of that area of the river.  It would limit further development in that area that has such a great view of downtown and could be an area of real attraction for the city and others visiting.  Not a lame version of the Riverwalk even further from the river bank.  I mean why put the development so far away from the river, kind of defeats the purpose of even having waterfront development. That is not something that is going to help us catch up to what other cities are doing on their river fronts unless we like, almost, staying up with Wichita and Fort Smith.    

The one section I like most about the incog plan are their ideas for the 71st area on the east bank. I also like that it has things for the suburbs downstream.  But I think Tulsa itself could use some sort of great utilization of its river. Something that will REALLY be wonderful.  Not this version of the incog. I look at it and want to yawn.

I agree the incog plan lacks a lot, but it a conceptual idea of what types of things and where. Turn the density and aesthetics nobs up a few notches and you have a plan better than teh channels.

EXTREMELY important things missing from the channels:
41st Street bridge
Riverside Drive West
LARGE outdoor ampitheater (think red rocks)
Everything south of 21st street

[aoxamaxoa]

Where is the city on all this?

Seems to me the stormwater management department is practically non existent anymore.

The city uses these funds from taxpayers to cover defecits in other departments. It's called conversion.

Call your councilor and ask him what is going on with these funds.....

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Where is the city on all this?

Seems to me the stormwater management department is practically non existent anymore.

The city uses these funds from taxpayers to cover defecits in other departments. It's called conversion.

Call your councilor and ask him what is going on with these funds.....

I think you've had this little rumour shot down before, provide something prove your accusation.

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Where is the city on all this?

Seems to me the stormwater management department is practically non existent anymore.

The city uses these funds from taxpayers to cover defecits in other departments. It's called conversion.

Call your councilor and ask him what is going on with these funds.....

I think you've had this little rumour shot down before, provide something prove your accusation.

ex city employees.....k?

Again, what goes on in that department? Why have they failed in coming out and saying point blank that the Channels proposal runs counter to stormwater theory and regulations?

Maybe because they are beholden to that 5013c.....

[carltonplace]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Where is the city on all this?

Seems to me the stormwater management department is practically non existent anymore.

The city uses these funds from taxpayers to cover defecits in other departments. It's called conversion.

Call your councilor and ask him what is going on with these funds.....

My city councilor is a "her" and she doesn't care for misogyny

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Where is the city on all this?

Seems to me the stormwater management department is practically non existent anymore.

The city uses these funds from taxpayers to cover defecits in other departments. It's called conversion.

Call your councilor and ask him or her what is going on with these funds.....

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Where is the city on all this?

Seems to me the stormwater management department is practically non existent anymore.

The city uses these funds from taxpayers to cover defecits in other departments. It's called conversion.

Call your councilor and ask him what is going on with these funds.....

I think you've had this little rumour shot down before, provide something prove your accusation.

ex city employees.....k?

Again, what goes on in that department? Why have they failed in coming out and saying point blank that the Channels proposal runs counter to stormwater theory and regulations?

Maybe because they are beholden to that 5013c.....

Again, you referencing a conversation that you may or may not have had with an unnamed person that may or may not have formerly worked in some unspecified and possibly unrelated capacity for the city is not evidence.

Hey, Ax man, I talked to Bigfoot and he says that that Laura is not leaving George and that Kanbar is not selling his properties in downtown. And he says that you are full of it.

It's not me, that's just what Bigfoot said.

[aoxamaxoa]

I never said Laura was smart enough to leave Dumbo. That was on a magazine cover.

You show Kanbar or Kaufman a check and they be long gone.....you do not know jack.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Where is the city on all this?

Seems to me the stormwater management department is practically non existent anymore.

The city uses these funds from taxpayers to cover defecits in other departments. It's called conversion.

Call your councilor and ask him what is going on with these funds.....

I think you've had this little rumour shot down before, provide something prove your accusation.

ex city employees.....k?

Again, what goes on in that department? Why have they failed in coming out and saying point blank that the Channels proposal runs counter to stormwater theory and regulations?

Maybe because they are beholden to that 5013c.....

Just a slight clarification... 501(c)(3)