Peggy Noonan bails on the GOP

[rwarn17588]

I was shocked when I read this earlier today. Noonan is a prominent Wall Street Journal columnist, was a speechwriter for Reagan and has been an over Republican supporter.

Not any more apparently:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110009154

[papaspot]

I think you're gonna see more and more defections from the Republican Party unless it changes dramatically and soon. The Republican Party has been taken over by extremists who tolerate absolutely no dissent or disagreement. Unless you believe that mythology should be taught as science, you're not one of "them". Unless you feel that religion (fundamentalist Christianity, specifically) should be merged with government to create a religious state in the U.S., you are a "RINO" (Republican In Name Only). Unless you a liberal in conservative clothing that holds to the the fundamental principles of the Democratic Party (except with a different face) such as big government, lots of government control, deficit spending and the ceding state rights to the Central Government, there's no place for you in the Republican Party. The Republican Party has no one to blame but themselves.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

I think you're gonna see more and more defections from the Republican Party unless it changes dramatically and soon. The Republican Party has been taken over by extremists who tolerate absolutely no dissent or disagreement. Unless you believe that mythology should be taught as science, you're not one of "them". Unless you feel that religion (fundamentalist Christianity, specifically) should be merged with government to create a religious state in the U.S., you are a "RINO" (Republican In Name Only). Unless you a liberal in conservative clothing that holds to the the fundamental principles of the Democratic Party (except with a different face) such as big government, lots of government control, deficit spending and the ceding state rights to the Central Government, there's no place for you in the Republican Party. The Republican Party has no one to blame but themselves.

There's a lot of truth in your post but you are wrong to characterize the Democrats' fundamental principles as "big government, lots of government control, deficit spending and the ceding state rights to the Central Government."  

In practice the Democrats have been fiscal conservatives and Republicans have spent like a drunken sailor with a credit card.

The core principle of my party -- the Democrats -- is to represent the interests of the working man.

[snopes]

Interesting article. As a conservative, I feel that she's hit the nail head on (for me anyway).

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by snopes

Interesting article. As a conservative, I feel that she's hit the nail head on (for me anyway).

"We can do business with these people" is the remark that comes to mind. Who said that?

[snopes]

I'm not sure Waterboy.

[Conan71]

I for one am very disenchanted with the religious conservatism that has infiltrated the Republican party and seems to be creating the bulk of influence at all levels.

This seems to have gotten worse since the BJ in the oval office that was heard around the world.  Morals should matter in our leaders, but I think the conservative back-lash has gotten too extreme.

I've had a serious problem with candidates who tout their church attendance record and being against gay marriage, etc. as being some sort of indication of what their leadership skills are.  I know lots of people who go to church who are great neighbors, but they have no leadership or fiscal skills.

If I needed any reminder that Christian conservatism has trickled too far down the party, Anna Falling's candidacy in the Republican primary for district 1 county commissioner was it.  I found it totally irrelevant that she's a born-again Christian, against same-sex marriage, etc.  That told me nothing about how she would be as a county commissioner, and seemed to go against who she "was" as a city counselor.  I'm glad voters saw through the smokescreen.

Both Swabbie and Timmy touted their Christian values (Swab owns liquor stores) in the DA's race and I was severely disappointed we didn't have another candidate who could run without invoking an "endorsement from God."

I guess I come from the philosphy that if someone has to tell you they are a Christian it's because their actions don't show it.

It will be the ultimate un-doing of the GOP as I believe the minority of the far right group will push the majority of us toward the center and left.

[waterboy]

I think you're right. What I meant by my "business" remark was that in the past there has been some commonality with the Demos and Repubs from the center/left to the center/right. That commonality of having the general public's best interests at heart and utilizing the system to get things done meant they could disagree philosophically, but still govern. Once Bush and his buddies injected a religious primacy to the leadership, the general public's interest was not being met. The responsible members of each party were being lectured to and bullied with no compromise considered. We're in for better times I think.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71


This seems to have gotten worse since the BJ in the oval office that was heard around the world.  Morals should matter in our leaders, but I think the conservative back-lash has gotten too extreme.

I think it's more than just the backlash. I think there's a whole lot of hypocrisy associated with the backlash. If ya don't believe it, just click on google>news. Doesn't look to me like either side has a monopoly on sleaze. The problem for the Republicans is that, after a lot of finger pointing and self righteous indignation, now THEY'RE the ones whose sleaze is in the news.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

quote:Originally posted by Conan71


This seems to have gotten worse since the BJ in the oval office that was heard around the world.  Morals should matter in our leaders, but I think the conservative back-lash has gotten too extreme.

I think it's more than just the backlash. I think there's a whole lot of hypocrisy associated with the backlash. If ya don't believe it, just click on google>news. Doesn't look to me like either side has a monopoly on sleaze. The problem for the Republicans is that, after a lot of finger pointing and self righteous indignation, now THEY'RE the ones whose sleaze is in the news.

That sums up pretty well with where I was going with the far right alienating a lot of us- the hypocracy factor.  Politics and Christianity make for odd bedfellows.  Any time there is a scandal within the GOP nowadays, it looks and sounds doubly bad because the GOP is so associated now with the Christian conservative movement.

Maybe I'm naive, but I see the extremes in both parties moving further from each other every election year.  I certainly don't think it was this bad in the Reagan years.

[rwarn17588]

If you're correct, Conan, doesn't that belie the notion of the tired old "both parties are the same" argument?

Not arguing ... just wondering what you think.

[tim huntzinger]

Their behavior is the same, even if the window dressing of 'platforms' differ.  While trumpeting the values of their grassroots, precinct activity is all but dead.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71


Maybe I'm naive, but I see the extremes in both parties moving further from each other every election year.  I certainly don't think it was this bad in the Reagan years.

A two party system used to be a good thing because it provided stability. Since there were only two major parties, both parties had to moderate and limit their extreme views in order to include more people. Now both parties ignore the middle and work on the extremes and the people in the middle are left asking, "pancakes?"

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

If you're correct, Conan, doesn't that belie the notion of the tired old "both parties are the same" argument?

I'm not sure that it does, rwarm. I see what you mean and in one sense it does but when I say that both parties are the same I'm talking about at the most basic level. Both parties want lots of government and lots of government spending. The big difference is on what they want the money spent ON. Both parties want tax cuts, they just want 'em for different people or economic levels. Both parties want state rights but ONLY on things where the states are likely to do what they want done anyway. But the minute that a few states deviate from what they want, either party will run to the federales in a New York minute. It's kinda like the 2000 election debacle in Florida. BOTH sides accused the other side of running to the courts when things didn't go their way. Thing is that BOTH parties went running to the courts. One side says, "Yeah, well the OTHER side ran to the courts first." I don't give a rat's donkey WHICH side went to the courts first. That was nothing more than a matter of the order in which the chips fell.

[Hometown]

Well Papaspot, you got to keep things within the realm of possibilities.  You don't want to waste your time on something that isn't going to fly.  You got to sell it to the hicks.

Personally, I know where my bread is buttered.  I worked for a living.  I'm a Democrat.

Anyway ....

It's been really amazing to watch Big Time Republicans like Al Haig bailing on Bush.  Haig actually started a discussion of the election on a recent Sunday news show by referring to the Neo Cons that had taken over his party and then he named them – the Neo Cons.  

The problem is where were these Republican critics back when Bush had good poll numbers?  Now they are busy distancing themselves from a losing proposition but the writing was on the wall a long time ago and these guys just look like they are trying to save face, their face.  You get the feeling if Bush had better numbers they'd be singing the same old Bush love song, like Noonan was singing a year ago.

Now Democrats face the prospect of getting to clean up another Republican mess.  Whoopee.  We are like a dysfunctional couple.