Over Development

[aoxamaxoa]

Tulsa is quickly becoming overdeveloped much worse than in 1981.

The announcement by Dixie Development to construct 4-500,000 sq. ft. mixed use shopping/entertainment with another 66 acres across Elm for a "lifestyle center" on the BA at Elm near Bass Pro is the tipping point.

We will see many many years of infill redevelopment. But these enormous undertakings will eventually lead to major strains throughout Tulsa on pricing and value.

Already on 71st street between Memorial and Garnett, big boxes lay empty. And the TIF driven highway 75 and 71st is not even opened yet.

Add to it the housing slow down, lack of growth, and "full" employment and this all adds up to trouble.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Already on 71st street between Memorial and Garnett, big boxes lay empty. And the TIF driven highway 75 and 71st is not even opened yet.

Ther only vacant "big box" is homeplace which I believe has a tenant.

HW75 and 71 seemed open 30 minutes ago when I drove through. Unless you are referring to Tulsa Hills which opens in 2008.

Tulsa has always been a very retail-friendly town. Where else would people get a second job working retail so they can spend more money at retail stores?

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Tulsa is quickly becoming overdeveloped much worse than in 1981.

The announcement by Dixie Development to construct 4-500,000 sq. ft. mixed use shopping/entertainment with another 66 acres across Elm for a "lifestyle center" on the BA at Elm near Bass Pro is the tipping point.

We will see many many years of infill redevelopment. But these enormous undertakings will eventually lead to major strains throughout Tulsa on pricing and value.

Already on 71st street between Memorial and Garnett, big boxes lay empty. And the TIF driven highway 75 and 71st is not even opened yet.

Add to it the housing slow down, lack of growth, and "full" employment and this all adds up to trouble.

yeah, the housing thing, Tulsa is going to set another record this year for new home building.

Maybe it's just the economy here is actually getting better?

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Already on 71st street between Memorial and Garnett, big boxes lay empty. And the TIF driven highway 75 and 71st is not even opened yet.

Ther only vacant "big box" is homeplace which I believe has a tenant.

HW75 and 71 seemed open 30 minutes ago when I drove through. Unless you are referring to Tulsa Hills which opens in 2008.

Tulsa has always been a very retail-friendly town. Where else would people get a second job working retail so they can spend more money at retail stores?

No.
Rates have declined already in the corridor. when rates decline, value follows.
What about Mervyn's? Lots of gaps in the tenancy all around there. Theatre at 68th now closed?
Vacancies have now moved to 91st and Memorial....
Yes, Tulsa Hills....I did not realize there was other retail development there.

When the banks decide to stop being liberal, which the Feds have already tried to do by tightening regs, you will see more of a fallout.
And as far as the local housing situation goes, Tulsa seems to always find out when it's too late. But hey, maybe I am wrong. Records mean nothing. There is already strain in the marketplace. But to the "field of dreams" crowd, numbers mean nothing.

[aoxamaxoa]

BTW, I imagine Target is the lead tenant at Bass area. Free land. Tough on the developer.

I find myself doing more and more purchasing on the internet.

Let's see. What would a "lifestyle" center look like in BA?

[Cubs]

quote: I find myself doing more and more purchasing on the internet.

Well stop it!!!!

[In_Tulsa]

What theatre are you talking about?

[BKDotCom]

quote:Originally posted by In_Tulsa

What theatre are you talking about?

I'm guessing the one that is now a Wal-Mart supercenter?  Bizarre argument indeed
And it's closing had more to do with AMC's introducing stadium seating to town and the older theaters unable to compete.  Apples and Oranges.
Plus the MPAA has been crying about declining ticket sales, piracy, internet, video games, etc...

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by BKDotCom

quote:Originally posted by In_Tulsa

What theatre are you talking about?

I'm guessing the one that is now a Wal-Mart supercenter?  Bizarre argument indeed
And it's closing had more to do with AMC's introducing stadium seating to town and the older theaters unable to compete.  Apples and Oranges.
Plus the MPAA has been crying about declining ticket sales, piracy, internet, video games, etc...

Try the dollar cinema across from the WalMart in with .... well, not many recognizable names....Jo Anns is the only thing that comes to mind in that catastrophe of a development.

You seem to want to focus on the narrow rather than the overall city situation.

[OKmetro]

quote: BTW, I imagine Target is the lead tenant at Bass area. Free land. Tough on the developer.

I find myself doing more and more purchasing on the internet.

Let's see. What would a "lifestyle" center look like in BA?

Nope   Target at The Park at Adams Creek

If you want to see how the look well follow this link and all your answers are solved...

http://okmet.org/bb/index.php?board=5.0

And don't forgot Old Navy is looking for a place in BA... What about Bixby-- Whole diffrent story...

[sgrizzle]

The Village shopping center was a huge mistake. It hasn't been occupied in the almost 2 decades it's been open.

Fontana and Movies 8 may be closed, Eton Square Cinema is reopening however. Don't forget that Movies 8 is a cinemark theater who relocated to 71st and Garnett several years ago. The fact that movies 8 hung around for years as a dollar theater should be considered good.

Either way, there is 1 vacancy on 71st. The rest are on the west side of memorial which has been problematic for awhile. 91st & memorial is being targeted for redevelopment. That's why homeland was ushered out.

[BKDotCom]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa
Try the dollar cinema across from the WalMart in with .... well, not many recognizable names....Jo Anns is the only thing that comes to mind in that catastrophe of a development.
overall city situation.

If it has closed, nobody's told Cinemark yet.  Here's today's movie times
On the other hand the automated phone-# doesn't pick up..

[aoxamaxoa]

There are only so many dollar cinemas, hair salons, coffee shops, etc. that can fill the small spaces where developers see upside potential.

If I were a lender for construction I would be real careful...

Some of us recall what being red-lined means.

[In_Tulsa]

Movies 8 did NOT close.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by In_Tulsa

Movies 8 did NOT close.

Well, there's something else Aox got wrong.