Tulsa a Dying City?

[waterboy]

I think you did a fine job. That was what I was looking for. It could very well be that Tulsa's personality is food and drink. I always thought we haven't made enough of our differences. The way the city has naturally separated into districts (Cherry, Pearl, Latino, Northside, Westside, Downtown, Maple Ridge, Riverside. These weren't contrived. They evolved. I agree with what Hometown said, we aren't dying, we are transforming. Like moving from childhood to adolescense to adulthood, its a messy process.

[aoxamaxoa]

Yadayadayada

What a bunch of manure you threw out. Most those threads are chat or political.
You must have too much spare time....There have been no crazy guesses, no crying wolf.
There is thought stimulation, links of interest, and even rumors without this type of harassment on others (political threads exempt). You act threatened. That's weird.
Typically Tulsan you are yadayadayada...

[jtcrissup]

I suppose "transformation" is pretty appropriate, and you are right, these parts of town have evolved over several years, they didn't just happen, and they weren't planned to happen (either good or bad)...which some might argue is part of the problem.  I toured the Brady Heights and Owen Park neighborhoods last weekend and these are gems that some have already come in to help turn around, but they still need more attention to keep these neighborhoods from "dying".  If the bad conditions took 80 years to develop, how can we expect to turn them around overnight?  The only way to turn things around is to instill community pride (Tulsa Pride) and community ownership (I will not allow my neighborhood to be overrun with criminal activity).

As for the food/drink personality of Tulsa...I don't think this is entirely true.  For example:  we have amazing opportunities to view art (Philbrook, Gilcrease, Living Arts, various galleries all over town in the districts I mentioned previously), we have touring groups come through the PAC (and other venues around town) with Opera/Musicals/Plays that are national/world renowned (plus we have some very talented local groups that should also be supported), we have some of the best parks and recreational areas I have ever seen (our trail system is better than Austin's trails...just not used as much...plus Woodward Park, the Rose Garden, and Swan Lake, to name a few, are all spectacular places to go read a book/relax on a Saturday with your family/pets), Tulsa has a vibrant live music scene that although many ignore it it still exists (Adam Lopez and Citizen Mundi are two of my favorite groups to see live, and I have Adam's CD playing in my car non stop lately).  I am always excited to find new bands to see in Tulsa, so please if you know of others let me know!

These are just a few things to do that don't have to be focused on food/drink (although live music is best served with a cold beverage ala G. Love).  Discuss.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


We need something to put us on the map. Something that makes us enticing.

I think that one thing Tulsa is missing is what I would call an Element of Romance.

Don't you think that whatever that element is, that it must be an outgrowth of the city's personality? Are we a romantic community? I remember when the Space Needle was built in Seattle and suddenly that city had an icon that said more than any Chamber slogan would ever say. They were futurist thinking, and dramatic. But that was an outgrowth of the city's people. It fit them. My complaint is that we keep trying on personalities like a middle aged woman tries on swim suits. They never seem to fit like they did when they were 18 and they usually don't keep them long.

Once that personality is determined we can do that one big thing you speak of and it will seem effortless.

If our city doesn't have a personality.  Who is to say that I a fourth generation Tulsan, on both sides of my family, can't draw something up on a placemat like the artist for the Space needle did and have it become an icon for our city?  If our city doesnt have a personality who has the right to say what it is.  How long are we going to have to wait for that personality to materialize? Another 100 years perhaps?  You may have your ideas for what Tulsa is, for how it can be, but I have mine too. I think Tulsa used to have an element of romance to it.

I think the Rose Garden is romantic, the grand churches and skyscrapers, Philbrook, the new Centennial Park will be someday. The river could be, any new development could be. But not every one is. What I want to say is that I think whatever we do with the river, lets do it well, with that element of artistry and quality to it.

I didnt meant to imply that Tulsas identity should be as a romantic city. Its not as though any city is romantic to begin with and I dont think any city intends to become romantic, it happens through good growth, good planning etc.  By having beautiful places, parks, artwork, buildings.  Its what happens to a place when the people care about those things and realizes they are important.

When I look at the incog development I dont see that. When I look at other ideas people have put forth for the river I havent seen that. (like the plan the "no river tax" guy showed at the meeting).

What better place to have that element of beauty and romance than by that part of the river?

By doing something with that in mind for the river its not going to mean Tulsa is a romantic city, that that is its entire identity.  That the lady whatever she is wearing will have that as a part of her personality.  We can shape her personality.  The people of seattle I am sure had as many different types of people and views as we have in our city. But its amazing how a few people can shape a city.  The guy who said that all development in Paris should be 6 floors and a mansard roof and mr Eiffel. Two people who had incredible influence on the feel and look of the city and often quite at odds with what most would have wanted.  The Eiffel Tower was roundly decried as being ugly and inappropriate.

You can fight for what you think Tulsa could be, I will fight for what I think Tulsa could be.   I want a cathedral square, a great space by the river along with a work of art, and I want to have my grandmothers statue made. I got about 40 or 50 years to push for those things. You can fight against me and say I am wrong that I shouldn't shape something of this cities personality, but be ready for a loooong fight. And in the end, all of our different visions and things we do will blend together to create that unique personality for Tulsa.

[rhymnrzn]

As with every city, the Lord Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher:

Hebrews 13:14

"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come."

But we are in a special place here in Tulsa, as this will be the place where many prophecies of Scripture fulfilled, such as:

Jeremiah 51:14

"The LORD of hosts hath sworn by himself, saying, Surely I will fill thee with men, as with caterpillers;"

and

Nahum 2:4

"The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings."

Keeping in mind how important this oil capitol Tulsa is, let us come together and reason: this place is Babylon, capitol of this spiritual Chaldea.  But don't let the Beast power up his system before the time (Satan will be cast down as lightning), as their expotential rate of the increase of knowledge is waxing cosmic.

[waterboy]

Artist, you may have misunderstood me. I don't know if Tulsa is romantic or could be. Seriously, I was just asking. I'm too old to know. And yes, I think you have as good a chance of scribbling on a napkin what our icon will be as anyone else. Whether anyone pays any attention to us is where the fight begins. Not with me. I like your designs just fine, and I hope you are successful with them.

I have no idea what Tulsa's personality is. My family moved to this area in the late 1800's. It was Indian Territory. Many of them were Indians! Mostly from the North East migrating down through Missouri and some up from Louisiana. But still I couldn't tell you our personality. It will become clear when our Space Needle idea is presented and everyone seems to love it.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Artist, you may have misunderstood me. I don't know if Tulsa is romantic or could be. Seriously, I was just asking. I'm too old to know. And yes, I think you have as good a chance of scribbling on a napkin what our icon will be as anyone else. Whether anyone pays any attention to us is where the fight begins. Not with me. I like your designs just fine, and I hope you are successful with them.

I have no idea what Tulsa's personality is. My family moved to this area in the late 1800's. It was Indian Territory. Many of them were Indians! Mostly from the North East migrating down through Missouri and some up from Louisiana. But still I couldn't tell you our personality. It will become clear when our Space Needle idea is presented and everyone seems to love it.

Duly noted, newbie[].  Are we a romantic city. Little snippets of it here and there. I would like to do something to create a bit more of it.  And on the river, a whole big dollop of it.

But is Tulsa dying?  I think Jtcrissup listed a whole line up of little things that in total are adding up to a lot of promise.  I suppose that things have been so stagnant for so long that the things that have been slowly happening over the last few years just havent had time to sink in.  Things like Brookside etc. would start then fall apart again, over and over, and you would become frustrated and begin to lose hope that real change and growth would ever actually happen. But this time I think things are actually going to take root and grow.  I think we are at the tipping point to becoming a real, rich and vibrant city. Here is hoping for the best.

[Rico]

jt from what you have written.. I take it you lived in Tulsa before...

Originally posted by jtcrissup.

quote:

Tulsa has a vibrant live music scene that although many ignore it it still exists (Adam Lopez and Citizen Mundi are two of my favorite groups to see live, and I have Adam's CD playing in my car non stop lately). I am always excited to find new bands to see in Tulsa, so please if you know of others let me know!

These are just a few things to do that don't have to be focused on food/drink (although live music is best served with a cold beverage ala G. Love). Discuss.

Out of curiousity.... Did you live here when the "Observatory" and "The Jail" were still around..

I, like yourself, have always thought of Tulsa as being something of an Artist's haven.. I knew about Tulsa and "Strings West" long before I ever set foot here..Now, with the resurgence of Cherry Street and the Pearl District, I have heard nary a word about the "Strings West" Building or the History that walked through it's doors... I wonder sometimes why this is...

But then again, according to many, Tulsa needs a personality...
Strange that the ones that remember anything other than the "Oil Capitol" monicker have all but moved away...

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by rhymnrzn

As with every city, the Lord Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher:

Hebrews 13:14

"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come."

But we are in a special place here in Tulsa, as this will be the place where many prophecies of Scripture fulfilled, such as:

Jeremiah 51:14

"The LORD of hosts hath sworn by himself, saying, Surely I will fill thee with men, as with caterpillers;"

and

Nahum 2:4

"The chariots shall rage in the streets, they shall justle one against another in the broad ways: they shall seem like torches, they shall run like the lightnings."

Keeping in mind how important this oil capitol Tulsa is, let us come together and reason: this place is Babylon, capitol of this spiritual Chaldea.  But don't let the Beast power up his system before the time (Satan will be cast down as lightning), as their expotential rate of the increase of knowledge is waxing cosmic.

Perfect proof......

[yayaya]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Yadayadayada

What a bunch of manure you threw out. Most those threads are chat or political.
You must have too much spare time....There have been no crazy guesses, no crying wolf.
There is thought stimulation, links of interest, and even rumors without this type of harassment on others (political threads exempt). You act threatened. That's weird.
Typically Tulsan you are yadayadayada...

[yayaya]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Yadayadayada

What a bunch of manure you threw out. Most those threads are chat or political.
You must have too much spare time....There have been no crazy guesses, no crying wolf.
There is thought stimulation, links of interest, and even rumors without this type of harassment on others (political threads exempt). You act threatened. That's weird.
Typically Tulsan you are yadayadayada...

too much time...threatened=projection...aox[]

[jtcrissup]

Rico-

I was born and raised in Tulsa and moved away for about 10 years (and recently moved back).  What I am finding as a newly transplanted mid-towner is that there is a whole "Tulsa" I didn't know existed (or just chose to not experience it) growing up because of the sheltered South Tulsa attitude I grew up with (and some of my friends that never moved away still carry IMHO).  It is fun to move back and "re-discover" Tulsa for all it is.    

Tell me more about the "Strings West" building.  

I remember in HS going to a venue near 6th and Peoria for live music with no age limit (but it was a good mix of young and old at the shows).  Maybe it was called "Paradox", or something like that (anyone remember this place??).  That was the extent of my ventures into clubs in Tulsa growing up, and I remember thinking it was super cool to be in such an environment (this was during Pearl Jam/Nirvana grunge popularity, and many of the local bands that played did similar grunge style music).

Anyway, the "Observatory" and the "Jail" are also foreign to me...where were they?

Thanks
JTC

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by jtcrissup

Rico-

I was born and raised in Tulsa and moved away for about 10 years (and recently moved back).  What I am finding as a newly transplanted mid-towner is that there is a whole "Tulsa" I didn't know existed (or just chose to not experience it) growing up because of the sheltered South Tulsa attitude I grew up with (and some of my friends that never moved away still carry IMHO).  It is fun to move back and "re-discover" Tulsa for all it is.    

Tell me more about the "Strings West" building.  

I remember in HS going to a venue near 6th and Peoria for live music with no age limit (but it was a good mix of young and old at the shows).  Maybe it was called "Paradox", or something like that (anyone remember this place??).  That was the extent of my ventures into clubs in Tulsa growing up, and I remember thinking it was super cool to be in such an environment (this was during Pearl Jam/Nirvana grunge popularity, and many of the local bands that played did similar grunge style music).

Anyway, the "Observatory" and the "Jail" are also foreign to me...where were they?

Thanks
JTC

The Observatory was at North 6th and Sheridan.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by jtcrissup

Rico-

I was born and raised in Tulsa and moved away for about 10 years (and recently moved back).  What I am finding as a newly transplanted mid-towner is that there is a whole "Tulsa" I didn't know existed (or just chose to not experience it) growing up because of the sheltered South Tulsa attitude I grew up with (and some of my friends that never moved away still carry IMHO).  It is fun to move back and "re-discover" Tulsa for all it is.    

Tell me more about the "Strings West" building.  

I remember in HS going to a venue near 6th and Peoria for live music with no age limit (but it was a good mix of young and old at the shows).  Maybe it was called "Paradox", or something like that (anyone remember this place??).  That was the extent of my ventures into clubs in Tulsa growing up, and I remember thinking it was super cool to be in such an environment (this was during Pearl Jam/Nirvana grunge popularity, and many of the local bands that played did similar grunge style music).

Anyway, the "Observatory" and the "Jail" are also foreign to me...where were they?

Thanks
JTC

You are more than likely younger than I assumed..

"Strings West" is the building on Peoria just to the North of the BA.. If you look you can still see the bottom portion of the Guitar shaped sign.

It was famous in California as the owner Larry Biggs had a running add in "Rolling Stone Mag."..
He also supplied rare hard to find guitars for some of Rocks Elite.. ZZ, Petty, Keith Richards, Van Halen, and of course Leon and many others.


He is still around only not at that location...
Try this for more info on  "Strings West"

As to the "Observatory", that was a club opened by some of Leon Russel's associates.. When it was first opened Leon was said to have been closeby the front door wearing Top Hat and Tails Greeting people as the came in..
You must first understand that was during the BYOL days and the "Clubs" were far more secure..
The "Observatory" was on Sheridan between Admiral and 11th.

Last, "The Jail" was just another club on 11th St at a time when TU exerted far less scrutiny and monetary muscle over the immediate area..
The music was always very loud... and as it was a BYOL the Bands stayed Happy.

The only place I can think of on 6th Street that fits the description you gave was the "Club Nitro" although it could have changed names more than once..
A fellow named Kay owned that building and still does..

Anyway..Glad you are back in Tulsa..

There are many, what I call, promoters of Rock and Roll and Music in general that have always been around the Tulsa scene.. It has always been an incubator for Music.. and Musicians.. many from Tulsa others from all points across the States.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

quote:Originally posted by jtcrissup

Rico-

I was born and raised in Tulsa and moved away for about 10 years (and recently moved back).  What I am finding as a newly transplanted mid-towner is that there is a whole "Tulsa" I didn't know existed (or just chose to not experience it) growing up because of the sheltered South Tulsa attitude I grew up with (and some of my friends that never moved away still carry IMHO).  It is fun to move back and "re-discover" Tulsa for all it is.    

Tell me more about the "Strings West" building.  

I remember in HS going to a venue near 6th and Peoria for live music with no age limit (but it was a good mix of young and old at the shows).  Maybe it was called "Paradox", or something like that (anyone remember this place??).  That was the extent of my ventures into clubs in Tulsa growing up, and I remember thinking it was super cool to be in such an environment (this was during Pearl Jam/Nirvana grunge popularity, and many of the local bands that played did similar grunge style music).

Anyway, the "Observatory" and the "Jail" are also foreign to me...where were they?

Thanks
JTC

The Observatory was at North 6th and Sheridan.

Hmm, where exactly IS north 6th St. oh wise and accurate one? Not sure you are going to find such a street on a Tulsa map.