Why is John Sullivan still my representative?

[meeciteewurkor]

Well, at least you got the spelling of my name right

Speaking of crossword puzzles:
http://tinyurl.com/yy4qwg

Found a really nifty program that will generate them for you.

[USRufnex]

Nope... tomorrrow is MLS Cup day in Frisco, TX... dumbfounded as to why Tulsa still doesn't have a team...

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15955884.htm

[meeciteewurkor]

I miss the Tulsa Roughnecks.  Used to watch them at the old TU stadium every time they played there as a kid.
One of my childhood friends was the son of Alan Woodward.  I still have an autographed photo of him from way back then.

[tim huntzinger]

MCW - YOU said you were a Christian over at your forum.  Now you are calling undocumented immigrants 'scum.'  Nice. Just like when you called me a homosexual (and why would you think that is an insult, anyway?) and then allowed all your buddies to pile on that bandwagon.  Funny that you 'banned' me (oh the bitter tears I cried!) for unseemly lingo ('liquified uric acid' was too unChristian fer ya'll, remember?) and now you are over here calling fellow Christians 'scum' (oh, they are Catholic, not Christians, right?)

The problem here is that Sullivan is taking a legitimate problem and using it for cheap political points.  Remember 'Secure Our Nation's Interiour Act,' in which Sully sent out a press release and scored a few TV stories out of?  'SONIA' was DOA, one of about 4K bills filed in the House hopper that year, but Tulsans observing the process would have concluded that the Bill was next to being law.  Sullivan's 'victory' was not performing the task of a legislator and securing broad support, negotiating hurdles, picking up allies, etc., his victory was in the mere writing of the bill - which was not written by him anyway.

Sullivan signed off on CAFTA because of the earmarks Oklahoma was threatened to not receive from the infamous Highway Spending Bill if he voted no.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by Cubs

The state has always been run by the Democrats. The Oklahoma Senate has never had a Republican majority and the House has only been Republican for two years now. The state has had an overwhelming majority of Democrat governors across history. Same goes for Tulsa mayors. And we all know what the Republicans thought of our supposed Republican mayor LaFortune.
All I'm saying is don't even think about blaming the Republicans for Oklahoma's problems. The Republicans have never had much power in the state of Oklahoma.

So you blame all Oklahoma's problems on the Democrats but you excuse the Republicans for the NATION'S problems? Are you for real? Nobody could POSSIBLY be THAT thick headed. I'm starting to wonder if you ARE just trolling.

Michael Moore is less partisan and one sided than YOU are.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by meeciteewurkor

It's actually not Pedro the dishwasher.  It's Jorge, Andreas, and Victor...

Bigots aren't interested in the fact that there are almost as many illegal immigrants from Asia as there are from Mexico and all the rest of Latin America combined. Bigots don't wanna know that the fourth largest group of illegal immigrants in the U.S. are pure-dee WHITE folks from Canada. Trash people just need somebody to hate and Mexicans (or what they THINK are Mexicans) are the most visible.

[USRufnex]

MCW... PM me if you want to borrow a VHS tape of the 1980 Tulsa- NY Cosmos game from Skelly Stadium... complete with Alan Woodward.

[meeciteewurkor]

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

quote:Originally posted by meeciteewurkor

It's actually not Pedro the dishwasher.  It's Jorge, Andreas, and Victor...

Bigots aren't interested in the fact that there are almost as many illegal immigrants from Asia as there are from Mexico and all the rest of Latin America combined. Bigots don't wanna know that the fourth largest group of illegal immigrants in the U.S. are pure-dee WHITE folks from Canada. Trash people just need somebody to hate and Mexicans (or what they THINK are Mexicans) are the most visible.

Quit calling me names and present your justification for lawbreakers.  

As I read this thread, I begin to believe that you all are FOR those that break the law.  Have I brought up race in this thread?  Indeed, I hae not, it was you guys.

[meeciteewurkor]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

MCW - YOU said you were a Christian over at your forum.  Now you are calling undocumented immigrants 'scum.'  Nice. Just like when you called me a homosexual (and why would you think that is an insult, anyway?) and then allowed all your buddies to pile on that bandwagon.  Funny that you 'banned' me (oh the bitter tears I cried!) for unseemly lingo ('liquified uric acid' was too unChristian fer ya'll, remember?) and now you are over here calling fellow Christians 'scum' (oh, they are Catholic, not Christians, right?)

The problem here is that Sullivan is taking a legitimate problem and using it for cheap political points.  Remember 'Secure Our Nation's Interiour Act,' in which Sully sent out a press release and scored a few TV stories out of?  'SONIA' was DOA, one of about 4K bills filed in the House hopper that year, but Tulsans observing the process would have concluded that the Bill was next to being law.  Sullivan's 'victory' was not performing the task of a legislator and securing broad support, negotiating hurdles, picking up allies, etc., his victory was in the mere writing of the bill - which was not written by him anyway.

Sullivan signed off on CAFTA because of the earmarks Oklahoma was threatened to not receive from the infamous Highway Spending Bill if he voted no.

I specifically called the three workers you are paying for, scum.  Yes, they are.  High paying jobs that Americans can and do everyday.  The contractor that hired them is even more of a scumbag.
I apologize, I do not remember referring to myself as a Christian.  I believe that the Christian faith, upon which this country was founded, to be a very moral and common sense faith.  That does not make me one.  My personal religious beliefs are my problem, not yours.

When you state "Fellow Christians":  can you prove that the three gentleman I called "scum" are Christians?  Can you prove that the contractors I referred to are Christians?
Besides, did you know that even some that call themselves "Christians" are, themselves, scum?

Anybody else wish to blast me for exposing lawbreakers?  I tire of people bringing up the race / religion card.  The law is the law.  I think that "legally able to work" is very easy to understand.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by meeciteewurkor


Quit calling me names and present your justification for lawbreakers.

Pull your head outta yer butt and stop twisting the truth. In the FIRST place, I didn't call you anything. If you'd try reading with a little less BIAS, you'd see that I was talking about the person that you were quoting.

quote:
As I read this thread, I begin to believe that you all are FOR those that break the law.  Have I brought up race in this thread?  Indeed, I hae not, it was you guys.

All of us? How 'bout pointing us to one single thing that I've said that even IMPLIES that I support breaking the law.

[meeciteewurkor]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

MCW... PM me if you want to borrow a VHS tape of the 1980 Tulsa- NY Cosmos game from Skelly Stadium... complete with Alan Woodward.

Wow.  You have a tape from 1980 and it still works!  That's funny, because it is VERY possible that I was at that game.  I'll give you a holler later.  I know a guy that would probably want to watch it.  I need to go find that picture I mentioned, and scan it so I can share it with you.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by meeciteewurkor

The law is the law.

Most of the time when people say "the law is the law" what they MEAN is "the law is the law if it's a law that I like." If there is NO LAW that you EVER thumb your nose at (e.g. speeding, under reporting income on your taxes, sneaking a smoke less than 25 feet from the entrance of a public building, ETC.) then you can use "the law is the law" as a valid argument. If that's the case, you are a rare individual. If that ISN'T the case, the argument is just hypocrisy.

[meeciteewurkor]

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

quote:Originally posted by meeciteewurkor

The law is the law.

Most of the time when people say "the law is the law" what they MEAN is "the law is the law if it's a law that I like." If there is NO LAW that you EVER thumb your nose at (e.g. speeding, under reporting income on your taxes, sneaking a smoke less than 25 feet from the entrance of a public building, ETC.) then you can use "the law is the law" as a valid argument. If that's the case, you are a rare individual. If that ISN'T the case, the argument is just hypocrisy.

You may consider me a law-abiding citizen, and thus a rare individual.  
It's hardly valid to compare Federal immigration/labor law to speeding and smoking ordinances/laws.
You must also remember that some actions have much more dire effects on the United States.  Millions of people can break the speed laws in this country without much consequence.  However, millions of people entering our country illegally can be considered a threat to our sovereign nation.  
Now, which do you consider more dire to our nation's security?  Speeding, smoking, or entering the United States illegally?

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by meeciteewurkor

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

quote:Originally posted by meeciteewurkor

The law is the law.

Most of the time when people say "the law is the law" what they MEAN is "the law is the law if it's a law that I like." If there is NO LAW that you EVER thumb your nose at (e.g. speeding, under reporting income on your taxes, sneaking a smoke less than 25 feet from the entrance of a public building, ETC.) then you can use "the law is the law" as a valid argument. If that's the case, you are a rare individual. If that ISN'T the case, the argument is just hypocrisy.

You may consider me a law-abiding citizen, and thus a rare individual.

That sounds kinda like a side-step to me. You didn't say you never break ANY laws, you said, "You may consider me a law-abiding citizen..." I think "political-speake" would be a good term for it.

quote:  
It's hardly valid to compare Federal immigration/labor law to speeding and smoking ordinances/laws.

Why not? Either "the law is the law" or "the law AIN'T the law." Like I said, most people (you included, apparently) believe that "the law is the law as long as it's a law that I agree with."

quote:
You must also remember that some actions have much more dire effects on the United States.  Millions of people can break the speed laws in this country without much consequence.

Well...lemme see...

How many thousands of people die in the U.S. every due to speeding drivers?

quote:
However, millions of people entering our country illegally can be considered a threat to our sovereign nation.  

So can a few tens of thousands of dead motorists.

quote:
Now, which do you consider more dire to our nation's security?  Speeding, smoking, or entering the United States illegally?

Why am I not surprised that you haven't done your homework? Could it be because this is the stance that your party has told you to have? If you did the least bit of homework, you would know that only a FRACTION of the people in the U.S. illegally entered the U.S. illegally. The vast majority of them are here illegally because they overstayed their visas. What's the difference (other than the fact that you haven't done any homework)? Well, how about a few billion wasted dollars on a Berlin wall along the southern border? Seems to me like a few billion in squandered and wasted tax money could pose a threat to our national security.

[USRufnex]

These are PEOPLE, not criminals... sorry.  They're more interested in working and making their lives and the lives of their families BETTER... and these people can honestly contribute to our society, if given a lawful chance to do so...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/05/20060515-8.html

quote:We must begin by recognizing the problems with our immigration system. For decades, the United States has not been in complete control of its borders. As a result, many who want to work in our economy have been able to sneak across our border, and millions have stayed.

Once here, illegal immigrants live in the shadows of our society. Many use forged documents to get jobs, and that makes it difficult for employers to verify that the workers they hire are legal. Illegal immigration puts pressure on public schools and hospitals, it strains state and local budgets, and brings crime to our communities. These are real problems. Yet we must remember that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are decent people who work hard, support their families, practice their faith, and lead responsible lives. They are a part of American life, but they are beyond the reach and protection of American law.

We're a nation of laws, and we must enforce our laws. We're also a nation of immigrants, and we must uphold that tradition, which has strengthened our country in so many ways. These are not contradictory goals. America can be a lawful society and a welcoming society at the same time.

quote:The reality is that there are many people on the other side of our border who will do anything to come to America to work and build a better life. They walk across miles of desert in the summer heat, or hide in the back of 18-wheelers to reach our country. This creates enormous pressure on our border that walls and patrols alone will not stop. To secure the border effectively, we must reduce the numbers of people trying to sneak across.

Therefore, I support a temporary worker program that would create a legal path for foreign workers to enter our country in an orderly way, for a limited period of time. This program would match willing foreign workers with willing American employers for jobs Americans are not doing. Every worker who applies for the program would be required to pass criminal background checks. And temporary workers must return to their home country at the conclusion of their stay.

A temporary worker program would meet the needs of our economy, and it would give honest immigrants a way to provide for their families while respecting the law. A temporary worker program would reduce the appeal of human smugglers, and make it less likely that people would risk their lives to cross the border. It would ease the financial burden on state and local governments, by replacing illegal workers with lawful taxpayers. And above all, a temporary worker program would add to our security by making certain we know who is in our country and why they are here.

Notice my last posts have not contained any "bleeding heart liberal" quotes... they are from Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush and reflect a reasonable pragmatism and compassion that too often seems to come up missing in this discussion.  I'll take a plan that combines imperfect pragmatism with a reasonable amount of naive compassion over the anti-immigrant  chattering class's latent xenophobia and vigilianteism any day...