Parking Lot for Bells? Reaaaaaallllly?

[AMP]

Had to give you a breather.

Now Bell's seems to be added to that long list of long gone Amusement Parks in the Tulsa Area.

VISION 2025 has done zero for me that I know of.  

And now that I find Bell's is not included in the list of improvements from the VISION 2025 deal, I think it sucks.

Bell's should have a marathon ZINGO RIDE 24 hours per day seven days a week like a SIT IN of the 60's.   Sell T-Shirt that Say I rode Zingo for the last time.

Play the Movie Hair Spray on Giant Screens.  

VISION 2025 is good for who?

-----------------------------------------

Speaking of the Channels, anyone ever stood on the banks of the Arkansas River and took a good wif of the aroma there?  Neighbors near Charles Page Blvd sued the oil refineries few years ago and won.  They won $1 each for having to put up with the Smell annoyance.  Always heard AIR would be sold one day.  Guess they will be selling the tenants AIR there along with Filtered Water.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by AMP


My question, which has not been answered by the Tulsa World and the 4 TV station News departments is: When was the Expo Square Master Plan written, and why is it not public information?  

Public information:

quote:Originally posted by AMP


Second Question is if the Expo Master Plan was written prior to VISION 2025, why was Bell's Amusement Park not included in VISION 2025.  

Lots of things weren't included. Could be because it's a private entity, could be because no-one submitted bells, could be something that was cut.


And what of the donation by Murphy Brothers to Randi Millers campaign and Murphy Bros long term non compete contract bid with the Fair Grounds.  Why no investigation into that?

quote:Originally posted by AMP


As our tax dollars are streaming out to build a modern Water Park in Broken Arrow, Remodel Main Street in Collinsville and various other projects outside of Tulsa.  

It is a COUNTY tax and the dollars are spent all over the COUNTY. By and large, the city of Tulsa gets almost all of the money.

quote:Originally posted by AMP


Spending all the money on other projects while allowing our existing Tulsa City/County park neighborhood swimming pools to sit empty with no water and no lifeguard on duty.

The Tulsa parks system got money from vision2025 too. Why not ask them where they're spending it instead of complaining because someone else got money?

quote:Originally posted by AMP


And now to decide to evict a Tulsa Historical Landmark off the County Fair Grounds after leading the owners on and allowing the to pursue a legal battle in District Court for years regarding a major improvement to their facility.  May want to look at the definition of "Unconscionable" agreements as used in Commercial Real Estate contracts.  

I would be hauling the County and everyone involved into Federal Court if I were Bell's

You forget, Robbie Bell was the one who suggested Bell's leave the fairgrounds originally. This was only a few months ago. Bell's has spent enough on legal fees. Robbie was the one who signed the contract that allowed the county to kick him out so easily. He would have ZERO legal grounds for a lawsuit.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

Had to give you a breather.

Now Bell's seems to be added to that long list of long gone Amusement Parks in the Tulsa Area.

VISION 2025 has done zero for me that I know of.  

And now that I find Bell's is not included in the list of improvements from the VISION 2025 deal, I think it sucks.

Bell's might've been a good addition. However no-one, including you, cared back when it was time to put things on Vision2025. Too late now. Vision2025 is an economic development package, not a wishlist of things yielding personal gain. I support Vision2024 and the closest Vision2025 project to me is about 4 miles.

quote:Originally posted by AMP


Bell's should have a marathon ZINGO RIDE 24 hours per day seven days a week like a SIT IN of the 60's.   Sell T-Shirt that Say I rode Zingo for the last time.

Good idea. You should contact Bell's. Noise ordinance be damned.

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

"Indian owned and operated Casinos do not have to be on Indian land.  There are 3 operating in the US currently that are not on Indian Land."

they are all on original historic allotments... the land may have been sold to a non-indian in the intermediate time...

quote:"As our tax dollars are streaming out to build a modern Water Park in Broken Arrow..."

What project? That crappy Raddison?

[TheArtist]

Where is Bells master plan?  What has frustrated me over the years is watching the amusement park get worse and worse, not better. I remember going to both Silver Dollar city and Bells as a kid.  Bells had more rides and promise but has only gotten worse while places like Silver Dollar City have exploded, and yes during the post 911 economy.

I have also been very frustrated to watch Bells gimicy media stunts.  Every spring it seems he would roll out some plan like giving the park a western theme ( which never happened) or adding a major new ride ( which never happened) or talk about the possibility of moving ( which may now happen lol) and many other things where he got free publicity in the local paper and news.  But yet the park only languished and decayed. Tulsa deserved better.  It seemed he never had any vision or plan, any creative drive to make the park the best it could be.  

Dont get me started about not having enough land.  Ever been to a Disney Quest?  Small space, lots of fun.  Called being creative.  The lawsuit with the neighbors about a new roller coaster?  It took him 11 years and a lawsuit to figure out he could put it on the other side of the park? Puleeze. And did you see the rendering of the other coaster with the sound buffering?  It was horrible looking and would have been an eyesore for sure.

I just don't think Robby Bell has the imagination, creativity and drive to grow and maintain a wonderful amusement park.  My fear is that wherever he goes it will be the same. And its my guess, most others see that as well. We have seen is "plans" before not happen, over and over.  Why would anyone think it would be different this time?

[RecycleMichael]

Bell's third generation owner has brought all this upon himself.

When you let everything fall apart, the landlord should not renew your lease.

I was talking about this at a party over the weekend and I was amazed at how many people said they loved Bell's, but had not been there for years. They had some memory of it being fun, but had not seen it in the current state of disrepair. One guy said that he went last summer so his kids could drive the little cars and that only three cars out of a dozen were actually working. He asked the person working and they said the others were cannabilized to keep those three running.

Moving will be the best thing for Bell's and the fairgrounds.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Bell's third generation owner has brought all this upon himself.

When you let everything fall apart, the landlord should not renew your lease.

I was talking about this at a party over the weekend and I was amazed at how many people said they loved Bell's, but had not been there for years. They had some memory of it being fun, but had not seen it in the current state of disrepair. One guy said that he went last summer so his kids could drive the little cars and that only three cars out of a dozen were actually working. He asked the person working and they said the others were cannabilized to keep those three running.

Moving will be the best thing for Bell's and the fairgrounds.

Sounds like Robbie Bell is putting the carnie back in the amusement park business.

The reason people have fond memories of bells is because they went in the heyday of amusement parks.  These days most parks, with the exception of six flags, are just overgrown carnivals.  And the difference between amusement parks and carnivals is the scuminess level.

[SJC TUL]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


I have also been very frustrated to watch Bells gimicy media stunts.  Every spring it seems he would roll out some plan like giving the park a western theme ( which never happened) or adding a major new ride ( which never happened) or talk about the possibility of moving ( which may now happen lol) and many other things where he got free publicity in the local paper and news.  But yet the park only languished and decayed. Tulsa deserved better.  It seemed he never had any vision or plan, any creative drive to make the park the best it could be.  

You do realize that all of those plans -- including the Bell's Boom Town -- were held up by lawsuits, no?

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


Dont get me started about not having enough land.  Ever been to a Disney Quest?  Small space, lots of fun.  Called being creative.  The lawsuit with the neighbors about a new roller coaster?  It took him 11 years and a lawsuit to figure out he could put it on the other side of the park? Puleeze. And did you see the rendering of the other coaster with the sound buffering?  It was horrible looking and would have been an eyesore for sure.

A Disney Quest is NOT an amusement park.  And, as I understand, only one was built outside of Walt Disney World, in Chicago, and it closed down after about two years.

The proposed new roller coaster was to go parallel to Zingo right up against Zingo.  The rendering with all of the tunnels was not the original design.  The tunnels were added for sound mitigation for the neighbors.  There is not enough space on the other side of Zingo for a regular full-sized wooden roller coaster.  The new roller coaster proposed for the other side is of a radical design to fit into a site normally considered too small for such a coaster.

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


I just don't think Robby Bell has the imagination, creativity and drive to grow and maintain a wonderful amusement park.  My fear is that wherever he goes it will be the same. And its my guess, most others see that as well. We have seen is "plans" before not happen, over and over.  Why would anyone think it would be different this time?

It's nearly impossible to run a flourishing amusement park under the kind of constraints they've had at Expo Square.  That it's doing this well is admirable indeed.  Compare that with Six Flags, for example -- a company that is struggling to stay afloat under the burden of a $2 BILLION debt.  I wonder if their business plan would pass muster with Expo Square!

[HVYCHVY]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Bell's third generation owner has brought all this upon himself.

When you let everything fall apart, the landlord should not renew your lease.

I was talking about this at a party over the weekend and I was amazed at how many people said they loved Bell's, but had not been there for years. They had some memory of it being fun, but had not seen it in the current state of disrepair. One guy said that he went last summer so his kids could drive the little cars and that only three cars out of a dozen were actually working. He asked the person working and they said the others were cannabilized to keep those three running.

Moving will be the best thing for Bell's and the fairgrounds.

That sounds like the rides at the fair last year.  My Ma either volentered or went to the fair everyday last year, and Murphy Brothers finally got the one ride operational on the lst day of the fair. The only time I go to Bells is during the fair, their ticket prices were too high for what they had to offer.  I don't see me or my family going to the fair in the coming years.

[AMP]

Smoking Gun Discovered at Expo Square

Story about the Smoking Gun found at Expo Square:  

http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=115226

Seems the Murphy Bros contribution to elected officials may have some strings attached.  

And again someone at the County has leaked information, AND a statement to the Press. Thought they were under some sort of Gag Order.  

Would think Bell could get a Judge to give him an injunction to extend his ability to move his equipment off the property, expecially since the Fair Grounds has not shown an immediate use for the property.  Not like they need to place an ad searching for a new tenant.  Especially  if their plans are to make the land a parking lot.  But now we discover Murphy has first rights to the property.

So how is Expo Square damaged as there is no revenue stream from the additional parking that could be quantified, and they have what appears to be a prospective tenant that signed on prior to the action taken against Bells.

[AMP]

Wonder if the patrons of the Fair would be willing to pay the same price for gate fees and Mega Ride pass fees as in 2006, with none of the Bell's Rides there for 2007?  

With the loss of Bell's, the Expo may not need the additional parking for the Fair.  

That would be a good poll for the Tulsa World, KOKI TV and other polling sites to run.

Many people are unaware that Bell's also owns the popular Giant Sky Ride Ski Lift that runs East and West at Expo Square.

[AMP]

With the loss of Bell's and an addition of a Parking Lot the Expo is beginning to resemble Down Town Tulsa.  

Used to have a state of the art 3/4 mile clay racetrack at Expo Square that drew 13,000+ race fans every Saturday night during the Spring and  Summer months.  But the races were too noisy according to neighbor Gloria Huckabee, so the motorsports industry got evicted by fiat off the grounds.  Turned it into a single purpose use "Sand Box" and a parking lot. Sand is the enemy of motorsports.

Now motorsports is allowed at Expo Square, but only Indoors with all the doors and windows shut so the neighbors won't be disturbed by a little noise.  I recall they didn't make Garth Brooks play indoors when he performed at Driller's Stadium.

Indiana provides Tax Incentives for Motorsports Industry businesses.  They even provide schlorships for University courses involving Motorsports training.   Their Governor even rides a Harley Davidson.  

NASCAR one of the top Fortune 100 businessses.

[tim huntzinger]

Cannot we just keep Zingo?  The rest is not as compelling as that wooden roller coaster thing, y'know?  Is that not what Tulsans want, anyway?

[TheArtist]

I think Bells has been stagnating where it is and having it move may just be the thing to kick Robby into gear and better the park.  

It may put fresh energy and interest into the park by having it move.  If it succeeds and grows in one of the suburbs that will be better for Tulsa than having the park slowly rust and fall apart where it is.  

To have a good, clean, prospering amusement park would be good for the whole area.  Perhaps a business partner would add an influx of money, and much needed drive, creativity and vision for the park as well.



But back to the parking lol. Werent there plans for the expo to have a second level parking garage?  Would having the bells space then negate having to spend the money on building it?

[AMP]

When will there be a window of opportunity to fence off 3/4 of the parking near the Pavillion and Expo to erect temporary fencing to keep foot and driven traffic away from Cranes that will be operating North of the Expo building removing the Giant Sky Ride.  

Anyone have any memory of how long it took to install that ride or Zingo?

A team of engineers would be needed to direct the dismantling of the heavy equipment at Bell's.  

About the heaviest thing the people making these decisions have lifted is a vaccum cleaner.

After you assemble the team of engineers to develop the plan, check for burried underground cables, pipes and other hazards, then obtain permits to excavate, move overhead power lines, remove sewers and plumbing, comply with code inspections, obtain more permits, have additioal inspections while waiting for numerous personnel to return from vacations, holiday leave, family medical act leave, funerals, weddings, sick leave and other un-forseen delays.  

Purchase special liability insurance for moving heavy equipment and additional insurance for moving the parts down the streets avenues and highways in Oklahoma.  Special permits from the Department of Transportation and times with escorts, plus PSO to travel along lifting powerlines along the designated route.

After the paper work weighs about as much as the Belger Cartage Crane ball, you may be able to unscrew the first bolt.  

My question is how is the Expo going to deal with all the construction and moving around of heavy equipment and crane operations while having their annual events that have been advertised since last year?  

Think OSHA the DOT and the Equipment Operators Engineers Union will allow the operators to work with buildings in close proximity being occupied?

Then the re-location team must obtain duplicate and additional permits, fees and studies to allow the equipmenet to be erected in it's new location.

I would say around 5 months time to do the study, draw up the engineers guidelines, obtain permits and other legally required documents, retain a major Cartage service to attempt to dissasemble most the tall and heavy equipment there.  That is if the Cartage Service has equipment available, if there are licensed operators, and if there are enough trained Iron Worker personnel to assist with the tackle and gear.

Anyone ever moved anything that weighs over 2 tons and is 100+ feet in the air?