NoChe revisited

[OurTulsa]

I haven't heard much discussion recently on the NoChe (North Cherry neighborhood) revival?  Here's what I know:  

Mlofts has completed their triplex at the corner of 14th and Rockford (all three sold) as well as a seven unit development on Troost (almost all sold).  They are finishing a duplex right beside the 7-plex and starting on a 6 unit townhome development on Quincy.  I know that they also have cleared other lots in the hood.  

Another group is joining in on the effort. the 'Tulsa Loft Project' is getting ready to begin construction on two contemporary loft-like townhomes just up from the corner of 14th/Rockford at 1409 (their design looks great and they are going for LEED certification).  The Colonial building restoration (wonderful job) is nearing total completion with the hopeful addition of a restaurant in the old Wok space.  Josh Walker and his dad have done a great job at filling the building with good tenants.  DingBats is very cool as is Boulevards clothier.  CB-Urban realtors has opened up a shop on the side of the building sharing a space with these amazing caterers.    Also the Coffee House on Cherry St. has done a nice job renovating the old book store at 15th/Rockford.  

Anything I'm missing?  Henry Aberson has some Cherry St. frontage over around Troost however he is focussed on his current projects at 35th/Peoria for now.  He has eventual plans to do some retail/restaurant redevelopment there that would extend the Cherry St. corridor.

Would love to see some streetscaping in this district eventually.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by OurTulsa

Would love to see some streetscaping in this district eventually.

Thanks to folks like the Tulsa Urban Development Department, "streetscaping" seems to mean lots of cutesy (and very expensive) "acorn" streetlights (see: Downtown Tulsa Unlimited's "Downtown Street Furniture Standards"), and that could help loose you your LEED Green Building rating because of their poor design and the waste they represent.

When you consider many "acorns" only put 30% of their light on the ground at angles useful to human vision, you can see one reason why the DTU streetscaping standards are holding us back:



LEED for New Construction Version 2.2, Credit 8
https://www.usgbc.org/ShowFile.aspx?DocumentID=1095

FOR EXTERIOR LIGHTING
Only light areas as required for safety and comfort. Do not exceed 80% of the lighting power densities for exterior areas and 50% for building facades and landscape features as defined in ASHRAE/IESNA Standard 90.1-2004, Exterior Lighting Section, without amendments.
All projects shall be classified under one of the following zones, as defined in IESNA RP-33-99, and shall follow all of the requirements for that specific lighting zone:

LZ1 — Dark (Park and Rural Settings)
Design exterior lighting so that all site and building mounted luminaires produce a maximum initial illuminance value no greater than 0.01 horizontal and vertical footcandles at the site boundary and beyond. Document that 0% of the total initial designed fixture lumens are emitted at an angle of 90 degrees or higher from nadir (straight down).

LZ2 — Low (Residential areas)
Design exterior lighting so that all site and building mounted luminaires produce a maximum initial illuminance value no greater than 0.10 horizontal and vertical footcandles at the site boundary and no greater than 0.01 horizontal footcandles 10 feet beyond the site boundary. Document that no more than 2% of the total initial designed fixture lumens are emitted at an angle of 90 degrees or higher from nadir (straight down). For site boundaries that abut public rights-of-way, light trespass requirements may be met relative to the curb line instead of the site boundary.

LZ3 — Medium (Commercial/Industrial, High-Density Residential)
Design exterior lighting so that all site and building mounted luminaires produce a maximum initial illuminance value no greater than 0.20 horizontal and vertical footcandles at the site boundary and no greater than 0.01 horizontal footcandles 15 feet beyond the site. Document that no more than 5% of the total initial designed fixture lumens are emitted at an angle of 90 degrees or higher from nadir (straight down). For site boundaries that abut public rights-of-way, light trespass requirements may be met relative to the curb line instead of the site boundary.

LZ4 — High (Major City Centers, Entertainment Districts)
Design exterior lighting so that all site and building mounted luminaires produce a maximum initial illuminance value no greater than 0.60 horizontal and vertical footcandles at the site boundary and no greater than 0.01 horizontal footcandles 15 feet beyond the site. Document that no more than 10% of the total initial designed site lumens are emitted at an angle of 90 degrees or higher from nadir (straight down). For site boundaries that abut public rights-of-way, light trespass requirements may be met relative to the curb line instead of the site boundary.

[SXSW]

Thanks for the update OurTulsa.  It would be great to see more of those contemporary lofts in that neighborhood.  Do they actually call it NoChe?  Interesting name.  Does the neighborhood extend up across the BA to 11th Street west of Hillcrest?

And does the coffee shop at 15th and Rockford keep late hours, like after midnight?  That seems to be what killed Cafe Milano, and one of the reasons Shades of Brown in Brookside is so popular.

The last remaining parking lots/eye sores in Cherry Street remain the Long John Silvers/A&W at Peoria, the parking lots in front of Jason's Deli/Chimi's, and the car wash at Trenton.  That LJS/A&W irks me the most, anything there could have a rooftop terrace with an AMAZING view of the skyline.

[OurTulsa]

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

Thanks for the update OurTulsa.  It would be great to see more of those contemporary lofts in that neighborhood.  Do they actually call it NoChe?  Interesting name.  Does the neighborhood extend up across the BA to 11th Street west of Hillcrest?

And does the coffee shop at 15th and Rockford keep late hours, like after midnight?  That seems to be what killed Cafe Milano, and one of the reasons Shades of Brown in Brookside is so popular.

The last remaining parking lots/eye sores in Cherry Street remain the Long John Silvers/A&W at Peoria, the parking lots in front of Jason's Deli/Chimi's, and the car wash at Trenton.  That LJS/A&W irks me the most, anything there could have a rooftop terrace with an AMAZING view of the skyline.

The Coffee House is open til midnight on the weekends.  Not sure what their hours are during weekdays.

NoChe has become the unofficial name for the hood north of 15th, south of the BA btwn Peoria and Utica.  I think the Metro girls coined it.  I like it.

[Kenosha]

quote: Thanks to folks like the Tulsa Urban Development Department

Why say this? ^^^

What does it accomplish?  Does it make you feel better to slam folks, whom 1) you don't know, 2)whom don't actually make these decisions by themselves, if at all, and 3) whom probably agree with the point you are trying to make?

What do you do for a living Patric?  Can I come down to your office and pick apart your daily activities?

Here's a tip.  Don't be an a**hole, and people might actually listen to you.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Kenosha

Why say this? ^^^

For that matter, why scrutinize the parties behind the Channels, Jenks toll bridge, v2025 or Great Plains Airlines?

Wouldnt knowing more about the nuts-and-bolts of what and how decisions are being made for our community tend to encourage better decisions in the long run?

[Double A]

Hey Patric, screw em'. Their glass houses shatter when truth is spoken to power. I doubt anyone who has posted lives in this area, anyway. FYI, we don't call it "NoChe". Why am I not suprised that this "NoChe" district is a media marketing tool devised by Metro Lofts to sell their gentrified overpriced economically segregated enclaves. The Appletini YP Elitists jump down the throats of anyone who expresses less than glorious opinions of Metro Lofts.

On a positive note, I'm glad to learn the development at 1409 Rockford will be LEED certified.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

Hey Patric, screw em'.

Im humbled by that endorsement []
But seriously, if Kenosha were to make the case to the Urban Development folks that Norton and DTU arent the only voices that count, I'd be there in support.

LEED certification for newer development would send a very progressive message about Tulsa.  If something keeps holding us back, we need to take a good look at what it might be.

[Double A]

With Susan Neal running the Comp plan update and the Mayor's office on neighborhoods(or whatever they are calling it this week), I wouldn't hold out much hope for any progressive reforms.

[OurTulsa]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

With Susan Neal running the Comp plan update and the Mayor's office on neighborhoods(or whatever they are calling it this week), I wouldn't hold out much hope for any progressive reforms.

Susan Neal is not necessarily driving the Bus on the Comp. Plan update.  While she may be one of the Mayors points to the Comp. Plan Pat Treadway, Don Himelfarb, and others will have far more influence over the Comp. Plan outcome.  I do hope that you plan to attend as many meetings as humanly possible and contribute to the public discourse as well as support the final outcome (provided that it is somewhat reflective of your input) in front of our crap/weak/non-visionary Council.

I may be naive but I think we have an opportunity to accomplish some serious first steps with the update.  Our Mayor is not some home-grown good ole gal.  While she is well connected in this community (money will do that for most people) I get the impression that she understands that this City has got to experience some paradigm shifts that lead to a better quality of life and more efficient format for living and providing services.  Her range of urban experience extends far beyond neat little shopping trips to Dallas or Country Club Plaza or lobbying trips to D.C.  I get the feeling that she's experienced what other national and world level cities have and are doing and gets it (although she's hasn't necessarily done a great job of articulating it yet).

I have high expectations for this Comp. Plan update and plan on participating as much as possible and encouraging many a like mind to participate as well.  I am also like a lot of my contemporaries here giving this City roughly 4 or so years to make some relative mind shifts in how we develop our City and promote the urban, cultural and educative experiences.  We see the Comp. Plan and recent and forthcoming development(s) announcements as the keys to helping us determine our place of permanent residency.  For most of us, we want to be part of creating (or in Tulsa's case, recreating) a class City.  If we can't then we'll move to one.

[OurTulsa]

According to the USGBC (US Green Building Council) these two homes will be the first registered LEED certified residences in this state.  I talked to one of the partners from TLP and got a small list of their green elements:

GeoThermal heating and cooling
Rain water catchment system
Green roof
Low E windows
SIP framing
Recycled content flooring
Bamboo flooring
Low to No VOC finishes
Energy Star appliances
two flush toilets
tankless water heater (they weren't positive yet on this)
Wiring for solar panels so if and when the huge tree to the south of the lot dies a system could be installed if desired

http://www.usgbc.org/LEED/Project/RegisteredProjectList.aspx?CMSPageID=243&CategoryID=19&

http://www.usgbc.org/LEED/Project/CertifiedProjectList.aspx?CategoryID=19&CMSPageID=244

[Kenosha]

You could have input in these matters Patric, as did the Brookside associations during that planning process.  If faux historic lighting sticks in your craw, then thats the time to express your opinion.  Public Works also holds public input meetings on most major projects.

My point is this: Urban Development are the GOOD guys.

[Chicken Little]

I thought AEP was the problem with the obnoxious acorn lights.  I had heard when the downtown lights went in that these were the only "decorative" streetlight that they would maintain.

Regardless, Kenosha's got a good point, if there needs to be a better standard, the city plan would be the way to get there, wouldn't it?

I think its pretty safe to assume that nobody round here care's about this issue as much as Patric, so why don't you "go shopping" online and find this town some better alternatives.

Start us a thread, better yet, a wiki (Rex?), where we can help you work on a new set of rules.  Or, you could just keep complaining...that might fix it, too.  Which do you think would be more satisfying, Patric?

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little
I thought AEP was the problem with the obnoxious acorn lights.  I had heard when the downtown lights went in that these were the only "decorative" streetlight that they would maintain.

When they triple the amount of electricity they sell to the city (taxpayers) each time they "improve" an area with the bad fixtures they push, then sit back and say "we just do what the city tells us to do" then they do represent a problem -- but they share the blame with those in authority who use their position to perpetuate it.

quote:Regardless, Kenosha's got a good point, if there needs to be a better standard, the city plan would be the way to get there, wouldn't it?

Start us a thread, better yet, a wiki (Rex?), where we can help you work on a new set of rules.

Kenosha is probably right in that Urban Development is for the most part the good guys, but they bought into something every small town Beautification Committee was suckered into when they forgot the purpose of streetlighting was to light streets.

Fixing that should be well within our collective powers, and I look to groups like this for the informed and genuine input that comes from people caring for their community.  On the Wiki, I would welcome a little more education on how that might work (but maybe on another thread so this one can get back on course).

[Chicken Little]

^Clarify that.  You are being snarky about how the stupid acorn fixtures shine in all directions instead of downward, right?  Because, read a different way, your post might seem to say that you would prefer not lighting the sidewalks at all.

I'm all for dark skies, but dark streets and sidewalks aren't the only way to get there, as you have already taught us.  Thanks to your previous posts I know that full cutoff fixtures can cut down on glare.  So, where ya at with this?