Idea For Downtown Housing

[carltonplace]

Walking through DT today and it occurred to me that the huge open area behind Holy Family would be a great place for row houses. There are only a couple of existing structures here; many would not be missed.

[pmcalk]

Some of that area might include the property owned by the Schusterman's who were to donate it for the new library.  I don't know if that idea has been completely scraped, or is going to be brought up again for another vote.

[carltonplace]

The library was planned for the lot just to the south of 10th/11th St between Denver and Cheyenne. I took it into account, though I'm not sure if it is still planned.

There is already a cool old apartment building on 9th St that would fit in nicely.


This building at 8th and Cheyenne is also nice.


The rest is urban wasteland. This is both corners of 9th Street and Cheyenne Avenue



I bet the folks in Renaissance on Denver would like something nicer to look at than bail bonds and empty parking lots.

[BKDotCom]

I'd like to see most of that crumbling pavement removed.  I'll let the buildings stand for now.  All that pavement though, should be grass and a few trees.  I'd think the property values would instantly go up a bit.  And I'd think the Renaissance apts would like the change.

[pmcalk]

But were will everyone go for their plasma needs?  That's such a wonderful addition to the neighborhood.   You know your in a great neighborhood when you've got a place to sell blood for a few bucks.

I've always liked the building accross from the old safeway, though I guess that's a little further south.

[carltonplace]

According to the DTU master plan, a trolley stand and gateway will be placed at 8th and Denver. Right now there is not much reason to want to catch a trolley there.

Plasma Services certainly is a popular destination, but its really not close to anyplace where you can spend your money. Let's put it closer to the mall or a QT.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace
The rest is urban wasteland. This is both corners of 9th Street and Cheyenne Avenue

Betcha a dollar that behind that ugly green slipcover facade there's a cool old building waiting to be revealed.

[carltonplace]

You know Joe, I thought the same thing. If there is a neat little brick building with face front windows, what in the H*E*doublehockeysticks were they thinking when they covered it up with that?!?

Other than wondering what's under the green pebble cover, I can't find many buildings that tear at the heartstrings.

How amazing would it be to turn it into an actual neighborhood with trees, people, pets and maybe even little gardens in front.

Ever walk through downtown Chicago, Manhattan or Frisco (even St Louis)? Suddenly and for no reason you happen on these cool little row houses, and you can't help but slow down and appreciate them. I try not to be nosey, but I always look in to see how cosey and well appointed they are. They have this timeless and romantic feel to them.

[aoxamaxoa]

It's what downtown needs. But to do it, a public magnet school needs to be inserted and designated as the only school nearby residents may send their kids. That would give the neighborhood an anchor. Actually, take back Central from PSO through TDA and eminent domain.
AEP is creepy enough to move into empty office space elsewhere and absorb some vacancy.

The churches are free to follow suit. Just no voucher shenanigans.

[OurTulsa]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

a public magnet school needs to be inserted and designated as the only school nearby residents may send their kids. That would give the neighborhood an anchor.

Dude, I thought of exactly that when wondering what could be done to seriously attract people and investment to parts of the north side of Tulsa.  Reinsert a district for BTW and ensure that all kids who live within that district entry if qualified.  I guarantee you that if my child were to qualify for the school and for some reason not be selected I would be moving the next day into the district.

[jdb]

"...what in the H*E*doublehockeysticks were they thinking when they covered it up with that?!?" - carlton

It was a standard move by many to update facades cross the nation.
Upshot is some of these original facades - being sheltered from the elements - can be "restored" for the cost of a new TV: if new owner is so inclined.

Having seen two in tact 100 year old store fronts uncovered and promptly torn out, by new owners, I no longer advocate the concept of "anyone's better than no one down here".


Thing is, row houses are not a new idea.
It hasn't occurred because it's cost prohibitive, no demand, and isolating.
Strike one is street side parking.
Strike two and three <insert numerous reasons here> come wizzing by instantly and that's that.

Simply, we need more West and East coast mind-sets to create demand.
That, or petrol soars to $20.00 a gallon - whichever comes first, eh?

Shipping the kid to Central was a nightmare and ended badly. The cross-section of DT residents are sorely limited due to the school district.
It's a given this issues has to be addressed and ironic that it's one of the original reasons for the decay of Urban cores to begin with.

On a more serious note, the solution to the Plasma Centre is to relocate it in basement of the Public Library and create a TIF.

Lick more frogs, jdb

[carltonplace]

Its winter jdb and frogs are not easy to come by right now.

I'm surprised by your attitude lately whenever someone puts forth an idea or opinion on dt development. You seem to want the status quo, a decaying core with ever growing surface parking. More people downtown is exactly what we need; living working and playing. With more people will come retail, restaurants, parks and schools. You are not the only one on this forum that lives downtown. I live less than three blocks from the area that I've outlined above and I'd certainly rather see row houses than more gated apartment complexes like Renaisance. As far as cost goes, mlofts and Courey seem to be making a living.

I normally appreciate your opinion, but lately I think you must be drinking sour egg nog.

BTW, I would never advocate tearing out any old building, especially a brick one that could be repurposed and given a new life.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

It's what downtown needs. But to do it, a public magnet school needs to be inserted and designated as the only school nearby residents may send their kids. That would give the neighborhood an anchor. Actually, take back Central from PSO through TDA and eminent domain.
AEP is creepy enough to move into empty office space elsewhere and absorb some vacancy.

The churches are free to follow suit. Just no voucher shenanigans.

Young families care about good schools.  My sense is that the availability of really outstanding elementary and middle schools are what is holding back growth and development on the north side of town.  That must be true of downtown too.  

In cities like Oakland, where everyone who can has abandoned the public schools, good private schools can make or break a neighborhood.

Downtown and the north side seem primed for growth.  The absence of great elementary and middle schools is a serious problem.  If the public schools can't fill the bill, maybe private schools would work.

I don't know if there are enough single adults in Tulsa to make downtown happen.  I think you need to reach out to young families.  I've never seen a town as focused on children as Tulsa is.

[jdb]

"Its winter jdb and frogs are not easy to come by right now." - carlton

That's why I built me a frog hut: central heating, comfortable seating, free-range flies.

So shoot me...

Thing is I would rather see slow growth - or even no growth at all - than bad growth.
The Rena. Apts being an examle of bad growth that DT is now stuck with, IMO.

The Home Depot, the Moss prison, and the Arena are all wonderfull similar examples of bad growth, IMO.

The status quo sucks, but walmarts suck worse.

Simply, I value quality over quantity, the status quo has been in effect for a long time and there is no over-night cure.

I am here as one DTer expressing concerns: be they happy, accurate or otherwise.

Repeated idle musing about what would be nice somewhere is swell, I suppose: but with no intention of one putting their wallet on the table, it does go sour.

There are numerous reasons that salty developers, with hip ideas, have walked away from the DT Tulsa market for decades now. Telling is what's befell those that didn't walk away. Address that and then we're getting somewhere, no?

Frog Hut timeshares now avail., jdb

[azbadpuppy]

I think now that the housing bubble has burst througout much of the country, you will be hard pressed to find lenders forking out big money for speculative, high risk development like row houses in struggling urban markets- at least for now.

The 'Chateaux on Central' in Phoenix is a good example of such a development gone wrong.

http://www.chateauxoncentral.com/

Built in a quiet and underdeveloped area of the central corridor, with a bad school system, etc, not one of the 21 units ever sold. Now the lender has foreclosed on the property, and a trustee sale is scheduled for February. And this is in Phoenix where there are 100,000+ people moving in every year. Of course the 2-4 million price tag per unit might have had something to do with its failure too.    

I think a more realistic approach for DT Tulsa would be to convert and renovate existing structures first, see how those sales pan out, then start to develop mid to high rise condo developments in strategic locations. If all of this is successful you then will get the much needed retail and various commercial development which will then attract a whole different set of home buyers willing to live DT.