downtown arena

[AMP]

I have never been against any new Venue for Green Country.  Just curious why the designers failed to contact production companies that produced major events at the Civic Center, Pavillion, Tulsa Expo, Myriad, State Fair facilities in OKC and Tulsa, and in and around Oklahoma for the past several decades.  

Re-Inventing the Wheel Tulsa Syndrome

Tulsa appears to be trying to re-invent the wheel or buying the wrong design many times.  Take the Tulsa Expo Speedway or Fair Meadows as it is sometimes called.  The track is 3/4 of a mile, where the standard is 1/2 mile or mile, and the North Tulsa Speedway is 3/8 mile.

The odd sizes do not fit the standard gearing of most Sanctioning Bodies racing vehicles.  Therefore it is difficult for events to be held at either track.  Tulsa Syndrome once again.  

Seems a simple poll regarding requirements of egress, floor load limits, electrical power needs and other factors prior to designing a building would help the facility managers fill the needs rather than to fall short of providing the show producers needs.  

I have seen buildings that obviously had zero forethought, and a simple one foot dimension error avoided producing a show there as we would not be able to fit the width of a Monster Truck through the entry door to the Arena without doing major structural changes.  

The Myriad in OKC is a prime example.  First it has excalators that only go in one or the other direction on either end of the arena.  Neither will travel two directions at the same time.  For concerts they work great, but for conventions, car shows and other events where floor traffic is constantly moving around the facility, they suck.

The architect and planners were Einstones when it came to the parking garage.  Great idea to get the public close to the door out of the weather, but a bad design regarding floor weighy load limit.  Myriad has a maximum of 250 lbs per square foot.  That means a person that weighs 251 lbs cannot stand on one foot on the floor of the Myriad.  Ever wonder how much an Elephant weighs?  Or how about 8 300+lb Pro Wrestlers in a Wrestling Ring supported on six posts.    

Other bad deal with the Myriad is off loading of equipment.  Required to obtain a permit from the City and hire up to 6 off duty police officers and rent barricades to use the East side of the street on the West side of the Myriad at the small loading dock.   Good luck trying to park more than a a half dozen 35 foot Big Rig Tractor Trailers along there.  

The "Build it and they will come" may work for specific use facilities that are based on a common basic design, but with Multi Purpose Event Centers it seems wise to have end users to consult with prior to drawing plans.

The open at the bottom design of some modern arenas also causes a safety issue regarding motorsports events with exposed support pillars that vehicles can come into contact with.  That requires additional labor to bring in Jersey Barriers which may or may not provide adequate protection for the structure of the building.

In neighboring Texas, most their public use facilities are called MPEC, Multi Purpose Event Centers and are designed with being as convertible as possible to fit the needs of the show producers that rent the facilities to produce their shows.  Planners there seem to have a better understanding of what a Muiti Purpose event center should look like.  

Heavy Equipment, Media storage areas, Operators, Theatrical Equipment, staging, portable set up furnishings are all kept onsite for a minimal fee.  Saves the cost of delivery and a rental deposit from an outside source.

Planning, extra realestate for equipment loading and parking, adequate power and power locations, load limits, egress dimensions are all part of the puzzle of creating a workable free flowing MPEC.

[AMP]

I should explain the parking garage at the Myriad was built UNDERNEATH the floor of the Arena.  Thus creating a low maximum load limit on the Arena Floor above of 250lbs per square foot.

LAZY E ARENA Guthrie, Oklahoma  

This is one of the most convertible and workable Arenas in Oklahoma. The Lazy E Arena.  

Major problem with this and so many locations in Oklahoma is too many doors that must remain unlocked during public events.  

Again, the Tulsa Syndrome that seems to want to do away with fencing and traffic control high curbs surrounding event facilities. By not providing traffic control through less than 4 specific entrances, it drives the cost of the production up, which is offset by higher ticket prices.

Ideal design is a fenced facility that brings traffic into four or less  separate gates where tickets, gate fees and or pre-paid tickets are collected by a small staff.  Avoids spectators standing in line during incliment weather, speeds up the time requried to get into the building and locate seating.  Door monitors and security is kept to a minimum, thus allowing for lower ticket prices.

http://www.lazyearena.net/index.php?id=11

[ky]

[8D]sounds like its split. I think the people opposing it probally dont and wouldnt attend any of the functions any way. Im sure for those people the arena will probalby serve beer.

[AMP]

Before the politics changed I used to give away up to 3 kegs of Ice Cold Beer free or for one hour which ever occured first, prior to our events for a $5 General Admission Ticket.  That was back in the late 1980's.  

One night we had a fight over at the Beer Keg Area as a person cut in the free beer line.  The security was handled by the Sheriff department, and they came back with the story regarding the mud, blood and the beer.  One security guard said he had fun breaking up the fight.  

We switched from the little dinky 8oz cups that Budweiser provided to the larger 16oz size to keep the line shorter.  It stopped the fighting.  

Those were some good times. Today we are lucky to sell a few cans of beer at most events.  

Biggest seller today is bottled water, with energy drinks coming in a close second, pop a trailing third and beer in dead last place.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

"...be given a one-way ticket to Guymon..." - AJ

Hey, now your picking on Guymon?

Guymon, Ok. was an important...damn gotta scram, I'll finish with you later!

jdb

C'mon boy... you gonna finish what you started?? []

Happy New Year, jdb. Hope you're having a good one.

[jdb]

Some Holiday's require a longer sobering up period:

In the 1890s, Edward T. "E.T." Guymon purchased a section of land west of the Beaver River for mere peanuts, after strong-arming the area's dirt farmers. The site grew very rapidly after the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railway began to pass through it in 1901 and deposited many "lady's of the night" in the "wild" DT district.

lessor known fact, the town, first named "Sanford," was later renamed "Guymon" by railroad officials in order to avoid confusion with the town of Stratford, Texas, which was further down the line, and populated with really rough cowboys "lookin' for a fight". Many "Sanfordson's" were outraged at the name change and set fire to some small bushes along the bank of the Beaver River.

The Pioneer Hour Celebration has offered tributes to the community's pioneer spirit every May, at 2:00pm, since the 1950s.
On dry summer years, the annual "running with burning bushes" is not held due to burn bans but tourist's can view a two minute VHS showing of the previous years event if they choose.

The city has one high school, whose team mascot is "Wanky the Tiger".

Guymon incorporated in 1905 exactly one day after the City Council voted to build an arena on the site of Mcdowl's cow pasture.

Thus, Gumon OK is a wonderful example of the spirit, and intestinal fortitude, of Okahoma's one true resouce - it's people, allbeit against their will - and as such, deserves nothing less than our deepest respect!

jdb


Sources:

www.guymon/ok/hearld/arch.edu

www.guymon_rocks.com

www.smallbushesofguymon.org

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

Guymon incorporated in 1905 exactly one day after the City Council voted to build an arena on the site of Mcdowl's cow pasture.
jdb

Nice. []

[lowdbrent]

As a former Tulsa based touring audio engineer, I might have some insight.

1. When Tulsa decided to build a stadium, some of the local acts went to the mayor's office and said that it was a great idea.  A few said that it is a waste of time.

2. The reason that it is a waste of time and money is the fact that Oklahoma city, during it's first two years did not break even on their operation, and that was with additional tours (Paul McCartney, Cher and some others).   Even with additional big name generated revenue, they were in the hole.

3. No major stadium/arena in the US, without major sports teams is making money on conventions, concerts, etc.  It isn't happening, because for the most part, tours and conventions are downscaling.  Tulsa is behind the curve...again.

4. Tulsa's concert revenues are not what they were in the 70s or even the 80s.  Neither are comparable cities around the nation, because the music market is changing.  There is an over saturation of concerts/entertainment events.  There are more shows than people care (or can afford) to attend.

5. Tulsa is not on the major tour circuit path.  When tours come through Oklahoma, tours are generally mapped out (unless they are a 1-off) to run from north to south or south to north through OKC.  So if a tour is coming up from Dallas to play in Tulsa, and NOT OKC (which would have to be the case, because there will be insufficient draw to book at two cities one hour apart), then they would have to leave about 2 hours earlier than normal, which effects their show times in Dallas.  Or it means that the show time in Tulsa gets bumped up a bit.  Either way, this is something that booking agenys/tour managers must deal with.

6. OKC has been and will always be a better location, because of the support services, sister facilities and downtown development.  It is easier for OKC to draw 20k people for a show than it is Tulsa.  Tulsa has a hard time selling out convention center shows.

[TheArtist]

^Oh, yea?  Well I say we use the talent that exists in this town, it's resources, natural and manmade, finally live up to our potential, and kick OKC's butt. []

[tim huntzinger]

The problem is not with the talent in this town but whether or not Tulsans will attend enough events to keep the A-ream-a out of the hole (hey, that is pun!)

I contend that the County did not pay for the Arena, but County residents have.  The City will be left holding the bag for the costs while the County will reap the benefits.

The City should cede that property to the County, which is in a far better position to absorb the millions in losses the A-ream-a will generate.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by lowdbrent



5. Tulsa is not on the major tour circuit path.  When tours come through Oklahoma, tours are generally mapped out (unless they are a 1-off) to run from north to south or south to north through OKC.  So if a tour is coming up from Dallas to play in Tulsa, and NOT OKC (which would have to be the case, because there will be insufficient draw to book at two cities one hour apart), then they would have to leave about 2 hours earlier than normal, which effects their show times in Dallas.  Or it means that the show time in Tulsa gets bumped up a bit.  Either way, this is something that booking agenys/tour managers must deal with.

6. OKC has been and will always be a better location, because of the support services, sister facilities and downtown development.  It is easier for OKC to draw 20k people for a show than it is Tulsa.  Tulsa has a hard time selling out convention center shows.

First, the major concert maps do not go through Tulsa because Tulsa does not seek out the major concert tours.  Why?  Because Tulsa knows the convention center is not an adequate facility to attract them.

Second, Tulsa is improving downtown a great deal.  The process has been slow, but within the next year and a half many major loft projects and developments will be completed.  (The BOk Ctr. will be opening in Sept. '08).

And third, having a major destination allows any city to attract the required attendance figures for a major event.  15 years ago, OKC's downtown was as dead as Tulsa's.  But the continued development of Bricktown, major events at the Ford Ctr., and remodeling of the convention ctr. attracted people from throughout the OKC metro into downtown.

Once again, we must realize:  Tulsa is the largest city in the US without a large-scale arena.

[AMP]

Reported the 21st Annual O'Reilly Chili Bowl Midget Nationals Races going on this week inside the Expo, and not being hampered by the weater one bit, brings in $12,000,000 to the Tulsa economy over the 6 day run here.  Believe they stated it created more revenue than the Tulsa State Fair.

They had packed stands Friday night around 16,000 in the building, while schools, flights and most other events were cancelled??

The Tulsa ICE Oilers hockey cancelled? What is with that?  No wonder events held downtown don't seem to work.  Why cancel a game just because of a little weather event.  

Perhaps music and stick and ball sports are not on the top of the Hot Ticket list for this area.  Darryl Starbird's Car show is another big income for the Expo and Tulsa's economy.  

Both those Motorsports events bring in people and money from other states.  Not a traveling entertainment deal that extracts money from our economy and takes it elseware.

Not that I don't like good music or performances, just seems the stadium downtown is designed with what worked 10+ years ago for a convention type deal or small concert series, and to to today's floor space dimension needs.

[rwarn17588]

Maybe the Oilers canceled because the opposing team couldn't get to the venue. That's happened with a lot of sporting events in the last couple days.

The Chili Bowl fans and participants got here days before the storm, which is a big factor.

[AMP]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Maybe the Oilers canceled because the opposing team couldn't get to the venue. That's happened with a lot of sporting events in the last couple days.

The Chili Bowl fans and participants got here days before the storm, which is a big factor.

Granted the participants, and some fans were in Tulsa prior to the weather.  Most hoever do not sleep at the building, and still had to use ground transport from their hotel/motel rooms or homes out to the Expo.  

The weather forecasters called for the Ice Storm a few days in advance.  Seems a Sports team would of made arangements to arrive a day or two in advance if they were scheduled to appear with impending foul weather approaching.  

Chili Bowl participants arrive two or three days in advance and spend an entire day parking their big rigs in line on Sunday for Monday's move in day.  

The bleachers are brought in before Thanksgiving, dirt is brought in during the Christmas holiday with the Tulsa Shootout being run on New Year's Eve Weekend.  Then it is Chili Bowl time second weekend in January.  

They are still required to move all the Dirt, Bleachers and equipment out of the Expo to make room for the Annual Boat Sport and Travel Show that moves in first part of next week.  While Weather may slow the progress, it does not stop the shows from going on.

[rwarn17588]

I just checked the Wichita hockey team's schedule, the team the Oilers were supposed to play Saturday.

Wichita played in Lubbock on Friday night (and won, by the way).

How, pray tell, would a hockey team make other arrangements when roads are ice-covered from Illinois to New Mexico, and the Tulsa and Oklahoma City airports are canceling or diverting flights left and right?

Sorry if the facts are getting in the way of your rant.