Claim to ‘cure’ homosexuality

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by unknown

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom



Ye, choice is occurring. You discount the human spirit and subject man and women to nothing more than genetic robots. You can't just throw choice out like that. Then you could start advocating that murderers are genetically disposed to murder and therefore not responsible for their actions.

Well, actually the study done by Yoon-Mi Hur and Thomas Bouchard in 1997 on the Twins spilt (sic)apart has shown a strong link between impulsivity (sic)and sensation-seeking behavior... which are attirbuted (sic) to geneitc (sic) makeup/factors and are found to be higher in drug abusers, delinquents, and psychopaths.

you are right though, there are no, "killing genes", but some genes due lead to violent behavior... mixed in with a bad enviroemnt (sic) or with an extra y or x chrosome... you might have the next serial killer.

Yes, you are a genetic robot... you are who you are... even if your creator created you a few genes short[}:)] Who knows maybe your creator is transgenderd (sic) that might expalin (sic) why such things happen.

Same can be said for homosexuals, the genetic makeup of a person along with the enviroment (sic)they are brought up in... might just be the cause for their lifestyle.

You talk a lot about Choice... do you think Homosexuals actually choose to be looked down upon by people like yourself and choose to be an outcast to society? why would anyone in their right mind make that choice?

You talk a lot about might, may, could. Nice argument!

I never said I look down upon homosexuals. I think it's a very unhealthy, and damaging lifestyle choice that is contrary to nature and to Gods clear directive. I am able to separate the choice from the chooser.

In your case it looks like you merit a good dose of disdain and mockery purely on your lacking ability to judge the character of a man, and obvious disdain for opposing opinions.

Great start!

[unknown]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Someone help me. I fail to see any relevance to homosexuality, whether it be caused by genes or environment

Here ya go...
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/narth/1995papers/satinover.html

Basically there is no gene that causes homosexuality, but when you combine all the factors of a certain genetic code and certain environmental factors you could have a homosexual.

[BKDotCom]

I can't use wikipedia as the reference definition for a made-up word that's been embraced by the internet populace?  

"furthermore," What does evolution have to do with  us humans clearly being an animal.
Merriam Webster (or wikipedia).
Human : a bipedal primate mammal

Just because you don't consider the facts, doesn't mean they're not there.  Stating outright that you're ignoring facts, a good argument does not one make.

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

quote:Originally posted by unknown

Originally posted by truth4freedom



You talk a lot about Choice... do you think Homosexuals actually choose to be looked down upon by people like yourself and choose to be an outcast to society? why would anyone in their right mind make that choice?

Thank you!  That is the best argument against it being "choice".  And comparing the homosexual to someone who murders (a choice one shouldn't choose) or one who fights the urge to sleep with a 13 year old?  A man sleeps with a 13 year old - that hurts the 13 year old.  A man murders another man, that hurts the murdered man.  What does a man sleeping with another man hurt?  What happens behind closed doors between two consenting adults has nothing to do with you.

Well, there's the AIDS epidemic, brought here to the good old USA by a homosexual from Africa, and now most cases here consist of homosexuals. The treatment for an AIDS patient usually reaches the $600,000 mark much of which is paid by the US taxpayer, me. Combine that with the average age a homosexual lives to reach is a little over half of what a heterosexual reaches, and the push to create 'special classes' of hate speech that would make preaching the Bible illegal since it condemns homosexuality, and you've got a few reasons that it is hurting me. Do I want it to be illegal? No, if you want to do that in your bedroom then have at it, I could care less. But when homo fascists start pushing for hate speech laws, homosexual marriage, and demean me at every chance because I don't agree with them, then it's war. Homosexuals want 'tolerance' until it is 'intolerant' of their lifestyle choice. That they won't 'tolerate'.

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Truth4freedumb....you seem new to this game.
"what church do you attend?"

Actually, with a question like that, you stoop to the low of a character attack instead of honest and open debate. That says volumes about your character and motive, not to mention the validity of your position in this fun little conversation. Do you wish to attack my doctrinal credibility? What bearing does that have on this debate?

[unknown]

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom

You talk a lot about might, may, could. Nice argument!

I never said I look down upon homosexuals. I think it's a very unhealthy, and damaging lifestyle choice that is contrary to nature and to Gods clear directive. I am able to separate the choice from the chooser.

In your case it looks like you merit a good dose of disdain and mockery purely on your lacking ability to judge the character of a man, and obvious disdain for opposing opinions.

Great start!

You didn't have to say it... you make it crystal clear yourself.

How do you know what is God's clear directive? you don't

What character am I misjuding? yours? Sorry if I have offended you by making the notion that your creator might be Transgenderd. I guess you will find that out when you die and I am rotting in hell[]

[BKDotCom]

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom
...open debate...

Ha.  is that code for flame war and character assassination?  
BTW, The church you attend is perfectly relevant.  It lets us know just how "open" for "debate" you are concerning this subject.   Catholics teach evolution, southern baptists do not.

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Someone help me. I fail to see any relevance to homosexuality, whether it be caused by genes or environment, and the insipid story of three men ogling a 13yr old girl. Have you no children or proximity to them? Are you just totally unaware of humanity and human nature?

I could see embarrassment as a natural reaction to seeing my neighbor's daughter and mistakenly lusting after her, but anything else is ludicrous. The real moral of the story is that if men behave as pigs, swilling beer on the beach and judging women like cuts of beef, the result is not good. But then to jump to the conclusion that sex would be the inevitable response to admiring that beauty is crude thinking. If you intend to hide your hate under such flimsy arguments as you have proposed here, expect to be taken as a lightweight and laughed off. That's my response anyway.

Read it again, slowwwly. Breath. Think about it. And if still puzzled, read again.

No, no children. I have spent much time with children though, and love their innocence and simple faith.

No, but I think that's where the debate is at this point. What is human nature? Are we a helpless product of our environment, an accident, a haphazard evolution. Or are we created in the image of God and have a divine, set purpose for our lives, and are we held to a moral absolute. Basically, do we believe ourselves as being god, or do we believe in the Creator, the God of the Bible. I choose the latter.

Laugh away! It doesn't change a thing. I never supposed to hate anyone here, and yet I'm receiving a lot of flak for wanting to express my opinion, which I believe I have expressed openly and factually to the best of my ability.

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by BKDotCom

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom
...open debate...

Ha.  is that code for flame war and character assassination?  
BTW, The church you attend is perfectly relevant.  It lets us know just how "open" for "debate" you are concerning this subject.   Catholics teach evolution, southern baptists do not.

Where in the Catholic faith is evolution taught as fact?

In that case I go to a Southern Baptist Church. Do you know the name of one I can fill in?

So let me get this straight. If I attend a church that's accepted your opinion, then I'm open for debate. But if I attend a church that does not, I'm no longer open for debate. But you somehow are? The hypocrisy is deafening. I must hold all opinions as equally valid, unless I find someone who doesn't hold my opinion as equally valid. I then will refuse to accept their opinion as being equally valid, since it doesn't agree with my opinion of the equal value of opinions. Did I get it right?

[BKDotCom]

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom
Where in the Catholic faith is evolution taught as fact?

In that case I go to a Southern Baptist Church. Do you know the name of one I can fill in?

So let me get this straight. If I attend a church that's accepted your opinion, then I'm open for debate. But if I attend a church that does not, I'm no longer open for debate. But you somehow are? The hypocrisy is deafening. I must hold all opinions as equally valid, unless I find someone who doesn't hold my opinion as equally valid. I then will refuse to accept their opinion as being equally valid, since it doesn't agree with my opinion of the equal value of opinions. Did I get it right?

Did I say "taught as fact"?
Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God" (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36).

Where did I compare my level of openness to yours??

Valid opinion??  What kind of oxymoron is that?  One can have valid theories, not opinions.  Fact by majority rule?

Then you start rambling...

[unknown]

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom

So let me get this straight. If I attend a church that's accepted your opinion, then I'm open for debate. But if I attend a church that does not, I'm no longer open for debate. But you somehow are? The hypocrisy is deafening. I must hold all opinions as equally valid, unless I find someone who doesn't hold my opinion as equally valid. I then will refuse to accept their opinion as being equally valid, since it doesn't agree with my opinion of the equal value of opinions. Did I get it right?

no, it just means that if you attend a Church where the Bible is taught as fact and history and not as a simple guideline for a moral code of beliefs... more than likely you are closeminded and do not adhere to debates very well.

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by BKDotCom

I can't use wikipedia as the reference definition for a made-up word that's been embraced by the internet populace?  

"furthermore," What does evolution have to do with  us humans clearly being an animal.
Merriam Webster (or wikipedia).
Human : a bipedal primate mammal

Just because you don't consider the facts, doesn't mean they're not there.  Stating outright that you're ignoring facts, a good argument does not one make.

First time I've seen it, but I haven't been in the trenches of the lib's for awhile.

You really expect me to respond to that? I never tried to connect the two. Read my post again.

We both consider the facts. We're just interpreting the same facts with different world views. It's called diversity. You get a lot of that in college!

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by unknown

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom

You talk a lot about might, may, could. Nice argument!

I never said I look down upon homosexuals. I think it's a very unhealthy, and damaging lifestyle choice that is contrary to nature and to Gods clear directive. I am able to separate the choice from the chooser.

In your case it looks like you merit a good dose of disdain and mockery purely on your lacking ability to judge the character of a man, and obvious disdain for opposing opinions.

Great start!

You didn't have to say it... you make it crystal clear yourself.

How do you know what is God's clear directive? you don't

What character am I misjuding (sic)? yours? Sorry if I have offended you by making the notion that your creator might be Transgenderd(sic). I guess you will find that out when you die and I am rotting in hell[]

Well you've got your wires crossed or some wax in your ears. I never stated that, and playing the victim card will only make things worse for your argument.

Actually, I do. It's all in the Bible. A wondrous book written by men as inspired by the Holy spirit. In it God lays out His clear will for us and His loving kindness toward us. It's absolute and irrefutable. Some men have spent their entire lives, learned men at that, trying to refute it, and nearly all have come to believe it as inerrant.

Where does your absolute truth come from?

You've made false statements about me and tried to twist my words to mean what they were not intended to.

If you haven't repented of your sins, believed in your heart that Jesus has paid the price for them with His sinless life and atoning blood, and confessed Him with your mouth as being Lord, then yes, you will end up in hell for eternity. And I don't want to see that happen to anyone.

[unknown]

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom



Well you've got your wires crossed or some wax in your ears. I never stated that, and playing the victim card will only make things worse for your argument.

Actually, I do. It's all in the Bible. A wondrous book written by men as inspired by the Holy spirit. In it God lays out His clear will for us and His loving kindness toward us. It's absolute and irrefutable. Some men have spent their entire lives, learned men at that, trying to refute it, and nearly all have come to believe it as inerrant.

Where does your absolute truth come from?

You've made false statements about me and tried to twist my words to mean what they were not intended to.

If you haven't repented of your sins, believed in your heart that Jesus has paid the price for them with His sinless life and atoning blood, and confessed Him with your mouth as being Lord, then yes, you will end up in hell for eternity. And I don't want to see that happen to anyone.

and the truth comes out...

Thanks, but see my problem with the Bible is that is was written by man and then it was translated from Hebrew by men drunk off wine.... Which would make it far from being, "absolute and irrefutable," I have a hard  time putting my full faith in that kind of thing, but the Bible does provide a good moral code and some sort of purpose in life, but still the Bible is full of contradictions.

Why are there two creation stories???

The Bible is a collection of stories... kind of reminds me of the game we play as kids, when one kids whispers a sentence into another's ear and at the end of the line you get something completely different... The Bible is the same way and should only be regarded as a book of faith and nothing more.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Someone help me. I fail to see any relevance to homosexuality, whether it be caused by genes or environment, and the insipid story of three men ogling a 13yr old girl. Have you no children or proximity to them? Are you just totally unaware of humanity and human nature?

I could see embarrassment as a natural reaction to seeing my neighbor's daughter and mistakenly lusting after her, but anything else is ludicrous. The real moral of the story is that if men behave as pigs, swilling beer on the beach and judging women like cuts of beef, the result is not good. But then to jump to the conclusion that sex would be the inevitable response to admiring that beauty is crude thinking. If you intend to hide your hate under such flimsy arguments as you have proposed here, expect to be taken as a lightweight and laughed off. That's my response anyway.

Read it again, slowwwly. Breath. Think about it. And if still puzzled, read again.

No, no children. I have spent much time with children though, and love their innocence and simple faith.

No, but I think that's where the debate is at this point. What is human nature? Are we a helpless product of our environment, an accident, a haphazard evolution. Or are we created in the image of God and have a divine, set purpose for our lives, and are we held to a moral absolute. Basically, do we believe ourselves as being god, or do we believe in the Creator, the God of the Bible. I choose the latter.

Laugh away! It doesn't change a thing. I never supposed to hate anyone here, and yet I'm receiving a lot of flak for wanting to express my opinion, which I believe I have expressed openly and factually to the best of my ability.

Drop to your knees, perk your nose up, close your eyes, and kiss my arse.

You seem to have missed the true meaning of that story of three horny men. But then it didn't suit you so you made it fit.

When you have experienced more life and less preaching, then you can start preaching to us. Meanwhile you're just another religious nut job, ignoring science and history, incorrectly interpreting the Bible, and generally espousing hateful ideology.

For instance, what is your proof that a homosexual brought Aids to America? None. Could have been (probably was) due to blood transfusions, intravenous drug usage or even animals. But that doesn't fit your scheme and then we would have to demonize doctors, hospitals, animal labs and hemophiliacs. Just doesn't work for your religion, does it?