Prototype Neighborhood Market opens today

[BKDotCom]

When was the last time one of you shopped at the Mayo Meadow?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by BKDotCom

When was the last time one of you shopped at the Mayo Meadow?

About 15 years ago.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by BKDotCom

When was the last time one of you shopped at the Mayo Meadow?

I emailed the preservation commission and asked them to intervene when I heard about the plans.  I haven't shopped at Mayo Meadows since I lived in Lortondale in the 60s.  I thought a careful restoration would have created a first class space.  New isn't always better and especially in this case.  Tulsa's been pushing the envelope on the most beautiful city theme.  How about used to be most beautiful.

[MichaelBates]

When we moved into the neighborhood in '99, Mayo Meadow had Yale Cleaners, Huey's Shoes, Freeland-Brown Pharmacy, Argie Lewis Flowers, Horse and Hound Animal Supply, Better Price Store, Gospel Book and Music, Tulsa Paint Co., Ming Palace, Local America Bank, plus a shoe repair shop and a barber shop. The big supermarket space was vacant; it later became an surplus outlet for Carpet City.

We patronized most of those businesses; my son particularly liked for his grandma to walk him down to the Better Price Store to look at some of their odd trinkets. It wasn't all that busy a place, so we'd go there to let the kids ride their bikes or scooters.

At some point a few years ago, Wal-Mart approached the shopping center owner about building a neighborhood market there. As negotiations got serious, the owner stopped renewing leases, went month-to-month, and one-by-one store owners decided to relocate. Eventually -- sometime in '05 -- the owner and Wal-Mart finally came to terms.

It would have been wonderful if someone with a vision for restoring and improving the old Mayo Meadow center and the wherewithal to make it happen had approached the owner with a competing offer. But that didn't happen.

There's no guarantee that a makeover of the center would have preserved its best mid-century features. The Bellaire, north of I-44 on Peoria, and Boman Acres, at 31st and Sheridan, are still standing, but they've been turned into generic strip centers. Remember the Holiday Inn-like neon sign that Bellaire had? And the big blue and green screens that made the one-story section of Boman Acres look as tall as the Boman Twin Theatre? Those features are gone now and with them any hint of the past.

Even though Mayo Meadow was designed by John Duncan Forsyth, it wasn't one of his masterpieces. The most distinctive features were the metal and rock tower with "MAYO MEADOW Shopping" in neon. (I wish that had been saved and incorporated into the new center somehow.) There wasn't much in the way of detail or ornamentation. At ground level, the construction was not much different than any other suburban strip center of that era.

I only saw the reception area of the office by peeking in the window -- it was rarely open. There were a couple of details that placed it squarely in its era -- like a big planter made with the same stone used on the exterior.

The same family -- the Nidiffers -- that built Mayo Meadow in 1955 still owns it. Wal-Mart leases its store's land, and there are three or four pad sites available for lease and development. Perhaps someone with a passion for mid-century architecture could lease a pad site and put up a googie-style coffeehouse.

[Hometown]

Bates your ability to remember names is inspiring but your understanding of Modernism is a little sloppy.

I didn't want a makeover, I wanted a restoration.  

A core principle of Modern architecture was eliminating ornamentation.  The building's native stone elements contrasted with simple sweeping surfaces was striking. Mayo Meadows Shopping Center was designed by an architect and was not a knock off.  It was simple and elegant and it had a strong stylistic relationship to nearby Lortondale.  

A lot was lost with Mayo Meadows Shopping Center but it will probably take us another 10 years to figure that out.  Same thing as taking out the One of a kind, first class Delman Theatre for an engineer designed prefab Walgreens.  Quality versus cheap.  It has happened all over town.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by Steve

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

I've heard that the offices were beautiful.  Did anybody get any pictures?

What are you talking about?  Offices at the Wal Mart store?  However beautiful they may be, they can't make up for the loss of the Mayo Meadow Shopping Center, to the neighborhood, its local residents (myself included) and Tulsa's architectural past.  The exterior of the new Wall Mart store is generic, big box, stucco UGLY, plain and simple.

The only plus side is they cleared out the old abandoned Amaco gas station at the SW corner of 21st & Yale, that was ugly and a magnet for used cars and such, and crudely relandscaped the corner.  Looks better than before, but the ugly new Wal Mart is a high price to pay.

Why did you not buy the old center and do as you wished with it.....

Because I am just an average middle class Tulsan and I do not have a money tree growing in the back yard.  But that does not mean I can't have opinions about what ultimately happened.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by deinstein

quote:Originally posted by Steve

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

I've heard that the offices were beautiful.  Did anybody get any pictures?

What are you talking about?  Offices at the Wal Mart store?  However beautiful they may be, they can't make up for the loss of the Mayo Meadow Shopping Center, to the neighborhood, its local residents (myself included) and Tulsa's architectural past.  The exterior of the new Wall Mart store is generic, big box, stucco UGLY, plain and simple.

The only plus side is they cleared out the old abandoned Amaco gas station at the SW corner of 21st & Yale, that was ugly and a magnet for used cars and such, and crudely relandscaped the corner.  Looks better than before, but the ugly new Wal Mart is a high price to pay.

And Reasor's isn't a big ugly box store?

Yes, Reasor's architecture is big-box generic, but at least they did not destroy a nice 1950s shopping center to build the Reasor's at 19th & Yale.  They just took over the former Target grocery store space, and did not destruct what in my opinion was a significant part of Tulsa's 20th century past.  Reasors is a local (OK) company and they still have my business and $.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Bates your ability to remember names is inspiring but your understanding of Modernism is a little sloppy.

I didn't want a makeover, I wanted a restoration.  

A core principle of Modern architecture was eliminating ornamentation.  The building's native stone elements contrasted with simple sweeping surfaces was striking. Mayo Meadows Shopping Center was designed by an architect and was not a knock off.  It was simple and elegant and it had a strong stylistic relationship to nearby Lortondale.  

A lot was lost with Mayo Meadows Shopping Center but it will probably take us another 10 years to figure that out.  Same thing as taking out the One of a kind, first class Delman Theatre for an engineer designed prefab Walgreens.  Quality versus cheap.  It has happened all over town.

Right on, Hometown.  I suppose my opinions of the Mayo Meadow Shopping Center are influenced because I remember what the center looked like in its prime, the mid 1960s, and it was a fixture of my childhood in Tulsa.  Huey's Shoes and Argie Lewis Flowers were original tenants that held on to the end.  I remember the Humpty Dumpty grocery store my family patronized and the Mayo Meadow Cafeteria; the whole center was awash in neon lighting back then.  It just seems so sad to me that the architecture and original structure could not be saved.  I think the old center fit much better on the site than the new Wal Mart.  Oh well, I still have my memories.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Bates your ability to remember names is inspiring but your understanding of Modernism is a little sloppy.

I didn't want a makeover, I wanted a restoration.  

A core principle of Modern architecture was eliminating ornamentation.  The building's native stone elements contrasted with simple sweeping surfaces was striking. Mayo Meadows Shopping Center was designed by an architect and was not a knock off.  It was simple and elegant and it had a strong stylistic relationship to nearby Lortondale.  

A lot was lost with Mayo Meadows Shopping Center but it will probably take us another 10 years to figure that out.  Same thing as taking out the One of a kind, first class Delman Theatre for an engineer designed prefab Walgreens.  Quality versus cheap.  It has happened all over town.

dude, GET OVER modern arcitecture.  mayo meadows was just a dumpy strip mall.  This is like waxing poetic about all the strip malls on 71st 40 years from now.

[waterboy]

[/quote]

dude, GET OVER modern arcitecture.  mayo meadows was just a dumpy strip mall.  This is like waxing poetic about all the strip malls on 71st 40 years from now.
[/quote]

I think you're wrong here Inteller. No one will lament the loss of strip centers on 71st. Most likely they won't have lasted long enough that anyone would notice. That is the key. It is the cheapening of construction materials and design, the conformity that "chasing cheap" demands, that will ensure these new boxes will not likely be revered in the future. I would bet the demands for low price put on the builders of the WalMart meant that architects were replaced by engineers.

That is why so many 50-60's cars are so in demand as collectibles. It was obvious to anyone watching the deterioration of American car quality and design during the 70's-80's that they would not be desirable or even available as collectibles in the future. GM wanted it that way. Entire generations have bought into the concept of cheap and disposable and the result is dreary.

Many examples in all facets of life. Another example? Harbor Freight. Quality, lifelong tools have practically become antiques as cheap, throw away tools from China flood the market.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

dude, GET OVER modern arcitecture.  mayo meadows was just a dumpy strip mall.  This is like waxing poetic about all the strip malls on 71st 40 years from now.
[/quote]

I think you're wrong here Inteller. No one will lament the loss of strip centers on 71st. Most likely they won't have lasted long enough that anyone would notice. That is the key. It is the cheapening of construction materials and design, the conformity that "chasing cheap" demands, that will ensure these new boxes will not likely be revered in the future. I would bet the demands for low price put on the builders of the WalMart meant that architects were replaced by engineers.

That is why so many 50-60's cars are so in demand as collectibles. It was obvious to anyone watching the deterioration of American car quality and design during the 70's-80's that they would not be desirable or even available as collectibles in the future. GM wanted it that way. Entire generations have bought into the concept of cheap and disposable and the result is dreary.

Many examples in all facets of life. Another example? Harbor Freight. Quality, lifelong tools have practically become antiques as cheap, throw away tools from China flood the market.
[/quote]

oh PUH-lease!  I seriously doubt people thought mayo meadows was in for the long haul back in the 50s.  The Philtower was built for longevity, not some pitiful lookig strip mall.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

oh PUH-lease!  I seriously doubt people thought mayo meadows was in for the long haul back in the 50s.  The Philtower was built for longevity, not some pitiful lookig strip mall.
[/quote]

Its not what they thought thats important. It was built better, with more thought towards design and convenience than the building that replaced it. Cheap rules today. Design and durability are far behind.

I worked at a godawful designed Office Depot and I assure you, having watched it built from ground up, the building is crap. The systems are crap and the design could have been done by high school drafting students. I talked to some of the contractors who sheepishly admitted as much. They tried their best to emulate WalMart. They succeeded, if cheap was their goal.

[T Badd]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

I've heard that the offices were beautiful.  Did anybody get any pictures?

Here's my set I took with a crappy 1mp digital camera before they tore Mayo Meadow down.

http://flickr.com/photos/losttulsa/sets/669006/

[waterboy]

I'm glad you got a picture of those parking lot lamps! As a child I fantasized that they were UFO's. and there were aliens camped out in them.[]

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by T Badd

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

I've heard that the offices were beautiful.  Did anybody get any pictures?

Here's my set I took with a crappy 1mp digital camera before they tore Mayo Meadow down.

http://flickr.com/photos/losttulsa/sets/669006/

Great pics, T Badd.  Make sure the Historical Society gets a link.  I'm inspired.  Thanks.

/types "ebay.com" > "wall marlin"