Iraq Escalation

[iplaw]

Anyone catch James Baker's comments today urging Senators to give the surge plan a chance?  I suppose he is tired of the idiots who keep saying that a surge is in opposition to the ISG report.  

The ISG's other co-chairman Rep. Lee Hamilton, did not endorse the troop surge directly, but said the group did conditionally recommend a short-term troop surge.

I guess they're going to have to trot out another equally worthless canard now the "the president didn't listen to the ISG" one is no longer available.

[iplaw]

quote:I don't think you can say that opposition to the Iraq War is considered "leftist" anymore. There have been several outspoken Republican congressman that oppose any further deployment of US troops.

If you are referring to Chuck Hagel, he hasn't been "right" since he took office...

I don't care if you are left or right, these bozos who are arguing against the surge have offered nothing to help resolve the conflict.  Criticism is a right but it's certainly not a plan...

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:I don't think you can say that opposition to the Iraq War is considered "leftist" anymore. There have been several outspoken Republican congressman that oppose any further deployment of US troops.

If you are referring to Chuck Hagel, he hasn't been "right" since he took office...

I don't care if you are left or right, these bozos who are arguing against the surge have offered nothing to help resolve the conflict.  Criticism is a right but it's certainly not a plan...

Finally something we agree on, Iplaw!!  I think it's a general consensus among most Americans that the Iraq war is a complete failure.  That being said, it doesn't seem as though anyone has an intellegent exit strategy.  I would personally support the strategy that costs the least lives and money, while considering most other concerns peripheral.  It's amazing how simple that sounds...
What should our next move be?  Ideas anyone?

[iplaw]

Massive troops along the Iranian border to stop the free flow of Iranian operatives.  More troops along the Syrian border to stop Hezbollah from coming in.  Basically, do the one thing this country can't seem to do for itself, and SECURE THE BORDERS.

Anyone who thinks we aren't fighting Iran at this point isn't paying attention.

Lastly, we need a well trained Iraqi army, backed by US air support and infantry to clean out the Sunni Triangle, but Malaki HAS TO GO, he is driving the sectarian violence by overwhelmingly supporting Sheite violence and he is an antisemite.  Sadr has to be taken out, he's an Iranian mouthpiece.  Iraq truly needs someone from the outside governing until they can get their s**t together, one who isn't playing for one side or the other.

Lastly,

Don't put words in my mouth.  The war is not a complete failure, and can be won with the right plan.  I wish people would quit overextending about this.  The insugency has been dealt with poorly, but that DOES NOT mean it was a complete failure.  Saddam is gone, vast areas of the country are peaceful, and the Kurds are finally safe in their own country.  

Bahgdad is a mess, as well as Ramadi, but these areas can be controlled once the instigator, Iran/Hezbollah/Sadr, have had their strings cut (closed border, dead Sadr).

[mdunn]

we need to line the streets with GALLOWS!

[rwarn17588]

If we take out al-Maliki, what will he be replaced with? Another guy who's in bed with the Shiites? A Sunni that who'd be assassinated in a heartbeat? A goofball who couldn't find his butt with a map?

Iraq has already had two elections, with jack to show for it. The Iraqi government (most of its legislators don't even live in the country now) has had several chances to get its act together, and doesn't.

Bush keeps coming up with crap for war plans. He has no credibility on this issue. Do you really expect for him to come up with the RIGHT war plan NOW? Especially when his track record on this issue is so bad? How long should we continue to wait until we get a supposed RIGHT plan, whatever that is?

(It's kind of like voting for Bill LaFortune again, hoping against hope that a horrible mayor would suddenly become a good mayor.)

Iraq can be won with the right plan, but that's with a whole lot of conditions that'll never happen. In other words, when monkeys suddenly fly out of my butt.

I think the American people have been more than patient with this issue. There's a time for patience, but there's a time for impatience, too. After more than four years, you'd think the country would be improving, not getting worse. That's why the polls, inching up to 70 percent disapproval rate in the war, tell me that most of the American people are no longer patient and want to cut bait.

And saying that most of the country is peaceful except for Baghdad and Ramadi is like saying that most of Oklahoma is peaceful except for Oklahoma City, Tulsa and a chunk of Lawton. Talk about a hollow accomplishment. You know why other parts of Iraq are peaceful? It's because HARDLY ANYBODY LIVES THERE. If you've got unrest in areas in where there are lots of people, then you've got a problem.

[iplaw]

quote:If we take out al-Maliki, what will he be replaced with? Another guy who's in bed with the Shiites? A Sunni that who'd be assassinated in a heartbeat? A goofball who couldn't find his butt with a map?

I already answered that.  A neutral party until the madness is over.

quote:
Iraq has already had two elections, with jack to show for it. The Iraqi government (most of its legislators don't even live in the country now) has had several chances to get its act together, and doesn't.

Jack to show for it...how bout a constitution...Oh, I forgot, democracies are like Chia pets, just add water and they are supposed to grow...

quote:
Bush keeps coming up with crap for war plans. He has no credibility on this issue. Do you really expect for him to come up with the RIGHT war plan NOW? Especially when his track record on this issue is so bad? How long should we continue to wait until we get a supposed RIGHT plan, whatever that is?

Because until your side acutally offers a solution or a plan we can't leave and let Iran fill the void.  Put up or shut up at this point.  

quote:Iraq can be won with the right plan, but that's with a whole lot of conditions that'll never happen. In other words, when monkeys suddenly fly out of my butt.

What a sophomoric response.  So are you telling me you know more than General Petraeus who thinks it can be won?  Also, Baker, the head of the ISG thinks it has a chance as well.

quote:
I think the American people have been more than patient with this issue. There's a time for patience, but there's a time for impatience, too. After more than four years, you'd think the country would be improving, not getting worse. That's why the polls, inching up to 70 percent disapproval rate in the war, tell me that most of the American people are no longer patient and want to cut bait.

It's a good thing we didn't listen to polls during WWII...

quote:
And saying that most of the country is peaceful except for Baghdad and Ramadi is like saying that most of Oklahoma is peaceful except for Oklahoma City, Tulsa and a chunk of Lawton. Talk about a hollow accomplishment. You know why other parts of Iraq are peaceful? It's because HARDLY ANYBODY LIVES THERE. If you've got unrest in areas in where there are lots of people, then you've got a problem.

Nice try.  Iraq has a population of 22 million, and 18% live in Baghdad which has a population of just over 4 million, but hey, don't let the facts stand in your way, it doesn't fit with your anti-bush nonsense.

[altruismsuffers]

Don't you worry IPLAW I still all about 9/11 truth.  Right now I am just a lil more focused on the war and the anniversary coming up.  Bush says we must "Win" but he never ever gives a defenition of winning?  Maybe his defenition is staying there and giving the contractors billions of dollars so they can waste millions of it and other millions just seem to vanish.  Sounds like the corporations with the contracts are winning.  But what is winnning?  He never says.  We might assume that when he says "win" he means the Iraq will take control of its own country and we will leave.  You know what happens when you assume though...yes, we know

 Even the group that was supposed to decide the future of Iraq (who was headed up by Lee Hamilton who also was head of 9/11 commission) says that more troops would be bad.  What is the point of having the study group if we are going to brush them aside?  

 Anyways...I want to do something this being the 4th anniversary..check out this site and tell me what you all think

THEYAREHOMENOW.ORG


P.S. The forum does feature spell checking.

[iplaw]

quote:
Even the group that was supposed to decide the future of Iraq (who was headed up by Lee Hamilton who also was head of 9/11 commission) says that more troops would be bad. What is the point of having the study group if we are going to brush them aside?

Hey genius, do you even bother to read the news?  Baker, the co-chair of the ISG has given a thumbs up to the surge, even stating that the troop surge was warranted under the ISG report.  Hamilton has been ambivolent and has refused to make a specific statement.

No surprise you didn't do your homework on this one either.

Tell Darth Vader I said hello and that he did a good job making 9/11 look like an islamic fundamentalist terror plot.

[iplaw]

quote:
Anyways...I want to do something this being the 4th anniversary..check out this site and tell me what you all think

Been done before...if I were a family member of one of these guys i'd be pissed.  Did you get permission to use their names?

[mdunn]

IPLAW, the man(ALTRUIS) is nothing more than a professional protester,he even has a pic of himself on his profile from a clip from the news at one of his apparent protesting rallys.
Im sure he has no job,so he trys to stay busy as a protester.I bet his heart actually bleeds for the"CRUEL" way Saddam Whoswang"died.I see he is prime military joining age,but I bet he would run to canada before that ever happened!

[rwarn17588]

iplaw wrote:

It's a good thing we didn't listen to polls during WWII ...

<end clip>

Actually, iplaw, FDR's approval rating for how the war was conducted stayed around 70 percent the entire time. This data comes was secret polling conducted by Princeton during the conflict.

You can read more about the data here:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/008804.php

The American people are patient. But they're patient when 1) the enemy they're fighting presents an imminent threat to the entire country; and 2) when there's progress being made. Neither is the case with Iraq.

[iplaw]

quote:
The American people are patient. But they're patient when 1) the enemy they're fighting presents an imminent threat to the entire country; and 2) when there's progress being made. Neither is the case with Iraq.

I agree 100% with point 2, but that does not mean victory is a pipe dream or impossible.  Given Baker's support and Petraeus' stance, I think we have no other option at this point but to give it a go; that is unless someone has a better plan...


...cricket, cricket, cricket.

[altruismsuffers]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:
Anyways...I want to do something this being the 4th anniversary..check out this site and tell me what you all think

Been done before...if I were a family member of one of these guys i'd be pissed.  Did you get permission to use their names?

It is called freedom of speech IPLAW, ever heard of it?  The thing that these soldiers died for trying to preserve.  There is some legislation trying to be passed but it is primarily for people using soldiers name in a commercial venue AND profiting from it.  Even if that passes what are we gonna do?  Take down the vietnam memorial?  I doubt they got permission from all those soldiers families.  They will definately have to stop selling shirts.  I mean this is FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

[iplaw]

quote:
It is called freedom of speech IPLAW, ever heard of it?  The thing that these soldiers died for trying to preserve.  There is some legislation trying to be passed but it is primarily for people using soldiers name in a commercial venue AND profiting from it.  Even if that passes what are we gonna do?  Take down the vietnam memorial?  I doubt they got permission from all those soldiers families.  They will definately have to stop selling shirts.  I mean this is FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Personal commentary deleted  The Vietnam Memorial was created to honor those who fell in battle and is a reverent place of reflection for those who made it back alive, and is far cry from the propaganda you vomit.  

As you have clearly pointed out in your OP, this ignorant website you set up is a PROTEST against Bush policy.  Yes Einstein, the thought behind the action really does matter, especially when you are dealing with dead servicemen.

Freedom of speech affords you the ability to make an *** of yourself, and you apparently make the most of every opportunity.