Does this mean we can stop talking about it now...

[rwarn17588]

There are things you can do, like recycle (reduces energy use), drive a more fuel-efficient car (my Honda Insight gets 55-60 mpg), switch to compact fluorescent light bulbs, thoroughly insulate your house and seal up or replace your drafty windows.

And you know what? All these things I did because they were beneficial for my bottom line. I wind up spending less money in the long run. (On many of them, I get a tax break.)

I don't look on it as a sacrifice; I look at it as an opportunity.

And in the next year or so, I'm will probably put solar devices on my roof that, in total, will cost less for KwHs than buying it from the power company. I'll tell more about these devices when they become available in the United States. They could revolutionize the power industry. (Fingers crossed.)

It's also worth remembering that when the world gets together and tries to do something environmentally beneficial, the planet recovers much more quickly than expected, and the costs of making these changes are much less than expected, too. The ozone has recovered after we banned ozone-eating elements in the 1990s. Air pollution dropped dramatically after the Clean Air Act.

I am to leave the planet in better condition than when I was in it. And save money, too.

[shadows]

There is no question that some of skeptics could be right but then also are those who dream of looking in caves for a dinosaur who's existence after some 160 million years disappeared from the face of this earth.  Still they seek an explanation.   Another 60 million years may pass after our demise when another life form, other then ours, will look in the caves to see if one of our species survived.  It is assumed that the earth will heal itself but it may need some help from the present life forms that replaced the dinosaur.  After all we are guest momentarily on the  land surface and the planet is our host.  

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

There is no question that some of skeptics could be right but then also are those who dream of looking in caves for a dinosaur who's existence after some 160 million years disappeared from the face of this earth.  Still they seek an explanation.   Another 60 million years may pass after our demise when another life form, other then ours, will look in the caves to see if one of our species survived.  It is assumed that the earth will heal itself but it may need some help from the present life forms that replaced the dinosaur.  After all we are guest momentarily on the  land surface and the planet is our host.  

pancakes...you get some too.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

There are things you can do, like recycle (reduces energy use), drive a more fuel-efficient car (my Honda Insight gets 55-60 mpg), switch to compact fluorescent light bulbs, thoroughly insulate your house and seal up or replace your drafty windows.

And you know what? All these things I did because they were beneficial for my bottom line. I wind up spending less money in the long run. (On many of them, I get a tax break.)

I don't look on it as a sacrifice; I look at it as an opportunity.

And in the next year or so, I'm will probably put solar devices on my roof that, in total, will cost less for KwHs than buying it from the power company. I'll tell more about these devices when they become available in the United States. They could revolutionize the power industry. (Fingers crossed.)

It's also worth remembering that when the world gets together and tries to do something environmentally beneficial, the planet recovers much more quickly than expected, and the costs of making these changes are much less than expected, too. The ozone has recovered after we banned ozone-eating elements in the 1990s. Air pollution dropped dramatically after the Clean Air Act.

I am to leave the planet in better condition than when I was in it. And save money, too.

It's fine and dandy to put money back in your pocket, but you aren't listening to the UN.  They have now taken the position that Global Warming is unstoppable...don't tell me you think you know more than the UN now...no one knows more than the UN...period

As for the Honda Insight.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

There are things you can do, like recycle (reduces energy use), drive a more fuel-efficient car (my Honda Insight gets 55-60 mpg), switch to compact fluorescent light bulbs, thoroughly insulate your house and seal up or replace your drafty windows.

And you know what? All these things I did because they were beneficial for my bottom line. I wind up spending less money in the long run. (On many of them, I get a tax break.)

I don't look on it as a sacrifice; I look at it as an opportunity.

And in the next year or so, I'm will probably put solar devices on my roof that, in total, will cost less for KwHs than buying it from the power company. I'll tell more about these devices when they become available in the United States. They could revolutionize the power industry. (Fingers crossed.)

It's also worth remembering that when the world gets together and tries to do something environmentally beneficial, the planet recovers much more quickly than expected, and the costs of making these changes are much less than expected, too. The ozone has recovered after we banned ozone-eating elements in the 1990s. Air pollution dropped dramatically after the Clean Air Act.

I am to leave the planet in better condition than when I was in it. And save money, too.

It's fine and dandy to put money back in your pocket, but you aren't listening to the UN.  They have now taken the position that Global Warming is unstoppable...don't tell me you think you know more than the UN now...no one knows more than the UN...period

As for the Honda Insight.

Alex, I'll take the Ferrari for $100!

Rwarn- Home solar is a very, very expensive proposition.  Sgrizzle might know the answer, but is AEP/PSO allowing individual solar producers to sell their power back to the grid?  I know some utilities in California are.  I saw such a set up at a friend's house in California a couple of years ago.  When it's not so sunny or the battery bank is low at night, the meter runs in favor of the power company.  When there is a surplus, the meter more or less runs backwards.  She said with the current amount of credits on her electric bill that she might pay out the system in 10-15 years.  There would need to be some pretty good incentives and a buy back from the grid to make it worthwhile, because you won't be able to be completely independent of the power company with the amount of solar you can store and collect at your house.  Air conditioners and large appliances like lots of electricity.

I've been looking into solar power to keep my sailboat's (hey I'm doing my part except for that smoky two stroke outboard to use to get my boat in and out of the bay) batteries charged and topped and have learned quite a bit about it.  Just make sure you wind up with a very experienced contractor, not someone who thinks they know a lot of theory.  Theory is one thing, actually having installed and serviced a number of units in real-world conditions is quite another.

I don't have a problem with alternative power sources, I think they are great.  I was in awe driving past the wind farms out near Weatherford a couple of months ago.  Unfortunately, alternative power is not realistic for every industrial process, nor appropriate under every condition.

I still find great irony in catalytic converters actually creating more CO2 than there would be without.  I'm curious what the trade off would be with higher CO and NOx levels.

NOx is the major exhaust effluent that my industry is being regulated to death with.  California has led the way in really upping the costs for industry out there with ridiculously low NOx requirements, regardless of btu volume of burned fuels.  I'm still puzzled as to why any company would want to have manufacturing operations in that state.

[rwarn17588]

AEP-PSO right now is charging about 10 cents per KwH, and you know it's not going to keep it at those relatively low rates forever.

Conan, the solar device I'm looking at costs 5-8 cents per KwH, depending on your region.

That's without tax incentives or rebates or buybacks. As far as I'm concerned, if I get those, too, it's all gravy.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

It's fine and dandy to put money back in your pocket, but you aren't listening to the UN.  They have now taken the position that Global Warming is unstoppable...don't tell me you think you know more than the UN now...no one knows more than the UN...period

Global Warming -- Not Worse Than We Thought, But Bad Enough
http://www.reason.com/news/show/118479.html

Don't you have a John Birch Society meeting to go to...

JBSers love to deny global warming using "Chicken Little" arguments... and they continue to insist on "equal time" for their well-funded "global-warming-is-a-hoax" lobby... and iplaw's posts are right out of the John Birch Society playbook...

Blah blah blah UN...
http://www.getusout.org/

Blah blah blah Global Warming...
http://www.jbs.org/node/1691

What a great legacy!

My favorite John Birch Society quotes:

"Under General Pinochet's leadership, an incipient Communist dictatorship in Chile was stopped cold. Rather than suffer excoriation at the hands of the media, this man should be honored as a hero."

"The urge to destroy and defile Western culture represents the true spirit of Kwanzaa."

"Joe McCarthy was a brave and honest man. There was nothing cynical or devious about him. He said and did things for only one reason - he thought they were the right things to say and do."


Who's still cool on global warming?
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/175673

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

It's fine and dandy to put money back in your pocket, but you aren't listening to the UN.  They have now taken the position that Global Warming is unstoppable...don't tell me you think you know more than the UN now...no one knows more than the UN...period

Global Warming -- Not Worse Than We Thought, But Bad Enough
http://www.reason.com/news/show/118479.html

Don't you have a John Birch Society meeting to go to...

JBSers love to deny global warming using "Chicken Little" arguments... and they continue to insist on "equal time" for their well-funded "global-warming-is-a-hoax" lobby... and iplaw's posts are right out of the John Birch Society playbook...

Blah blah blah UN...
http://www.getusout.org/

Blah blah blah Global Warming...
http://www.jbs.org/node/1691

What a great legacy!

My favorite John Birch Society quotes:

"Under General Pinochet's leadership, an incipient Communist dictatorship in Chile was stopped cold. Rather than suffer excoriation at the hands of the media, this man should be honored as a hero."

"The urge to destroy and defile Western culture represents the true spirit of Kwanzaa."

"Joe McCarthy was a brave and honest man. There was nothing cynical or devious about him. He said and did things for only one reason - he thought they were the right things to say and do."


Who's still cool on global warming?
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/175673

Is that all you've got?  Accept it.  The UN knows more than you...if you think you can stop global warmining you just AREN'T listening hard enough to the guys in the blue hats.  But I do give you props on being able to post so many links in one thread, it must be difficult having to think for yourself so much.[xx(]

What is it with the libs and Independents (TM) on the board who can't manage to post about anything without having to link to 50 websites?  Think for yourself folks.

[aoxamaxoa]

Scientists Offered Cash to Dispute Climate Study  
by Ian Sample

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0202-05.htm

"Scientists and economists have been offered $10,000 each by a lobby group funded by one of the world's largest oil companies to undermine a major climate change report due to be published today....
The AEI has received more than $1.6m from ExxonMobil and more than 20 of its staff have worked as consultants to the Bush administration. Lee Raymond, a former head of ExxonMobil, is the vice-chairman of AEI's board of trustees."

There....Ignoramous!

[aoxamaxoa]

http://pabloonpolitics.com/global_warming.htm

A good read for Gwee doe doe, Ipsqueak, and The Conman!

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Is that all you've got?  Accept it.  The UN knows more than you...if you think you can stop global warmining you just AREN'T listening hard enough to the guys in the blue hats.  But I do give you props on being able to post so many links in one thread, it must be difficult having to think for yourself so much.[xx(]

What is it with the libs and Independents (TM) on the board who can't manage to post about anything without having to link to 50 websites?  Think for yourself folks.

Is that all YOU got???... you don't like links or facts.  A couple of those links were directly from the John Birch Society... some of us like to reference our opinions...

And some of us READ and post and think for ourselves rather than blindly follow the latest politically correct gaggle of conservative demogogues...

Or the same crackpots from my youth who loved to talk about "pinko-commies," "the evil United Nations," "one-world government," "AIDS as God's proper judgement in the 80s which will stop the gay liberation movement in its tracks," "the Catholic chuch as the whore of Babylon spoke of in the book of Revelation," "the Pope as the anti-Christ," "the upcoming rapture/apocalypse that will happen in 1977?"  "no... er, uh... 1979?"  "nope?  let's try 1982 when the planets align..." "er. wait... let's just make the rapture into its own multi-million dollar  cottage industry by publishing rasputin-like books/movies every few years...."


Yeah, I could post links, but am afraid to cast pearls before........

Have a nice day.  []

[iplaw]

quote:
A couple of those links were directly from the John Birch Society... some of us like to reference our opinions...

No.  Some of us would call that a fallacious appeal to authority, but you can call it "reference" if you want.  Whatever floats your boat.

quote:
And some of us READ and post and think for ourselves

Well, your doing two out of the three...[xx(]

quote:
Or the same crackpots from my youth who loved to talk about "pinko-commies," "the evil United Nations," "one-world government," "AIDS as God's proper judgement in the 80s which will stop the gay liberation movement in its tracks," "the Catholic chuch as the whore of Babylon spoke of in the book of Revelation," "the Pope as the anti-Christ," "the upcoming rapture/apocalypse that will happen in 1977?" "no... er, uh... 1979?" "nope? let's try 1982 when the planets align..." "er. wait... let's just make the rapture into its own multi-million dollar cottage industry by publishing rasputin-like books/movies every few years...."

More non-sequitors...can you actually make a point without resorting to a logical fallacy of some sort?

[USRufnex]

hmmm... so now my personal experiences are "logical fallacies"...

Gimme that can.

[iplaw]

Yes, but apparently you aren't familiar with the terms...

TCC offers a great class in remedial philosophy...you should check in to it..

And since you apparently like using MY gag material...I'll save you the effort of your next lame comeback and help you out...

"Yeah well the jerk store called, and they're running out of you!"

[USRufnex]

Spoken like a true lawyer...

Your sarcastic "Apparently global warming is unstoppable... Everyone panic! The bigger problem now is Algore needs to find a new hobby...." just gives me an invitation to play "Spot the Hidden Agenda" with you....

And here's a real non-sequitur for ya...  

Mustard: "I prefer Kipling myself - the female of the species is more deadly than the male. Do you like Kipling Miss Scarlet?"
Scarlet: "Sure - I'll eat anything."

Oh, I hear the Clue Phone... it's for you.  []