+'s and -'s of the Iraq War

[perspicuity85]

What are the pluses/minuses of the Iraq War?  Yes, Saddam is gone, but was that worth our possibly irreversible negative global image?  And what about the loss of our troops?  Would they support the war if they had a voice today?  Bottom line, I want to know what decision people on this forum would have made if they could take what we know today, and go back to the decision of whether or not to go to war in Iraq.  What would you do if you were Bush, and you knew what the conditions were going to be in 2007?

[mdunn]

there is no +s to any war,and Mdunn is sick of the war subjects,I want my brothers home,and want no more war!No winners come out of any war!
I am a veteran of both Desert Storm and Somalia,I served 14 years with Army Rangers and I know the outcomes of each,I want a peaceful world for my newborn son...PERIOD

[mdunn]

If anyone knows any history to the Singer/Songwriter Bobby Darin...He wrote a song called"The simple song of freedom"..In the song he states if leaders want war...lets put them in a room and let them settle it between them,not involve all the people!...If ya never heard the song...get it...lots of truth to it.

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by mdunn

there is no +s to any war,and Mdunn is sick of the war subjects,I want my brothers home,and want no more war!No winners come out of any war!
I am a veteran of both Desert Storm and Somalia,I served 14 years with Army Rangers and I know the outcomes of each,I want a peaceful world for my newborn son...PERIOD

Awesome!

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

quote:Originally posted by mdunn

there is no +s to any war,and Mdunn is sick of the war subjects,I want my brothers home,and want no more war!No winners come out of any war!
I am a veteran of both Desert Storm and Somalia,I served 14 years with Army Rangers and I know the outcomes of each,I want a peaceful world for my newborn son...PERIOD

Awesome!

Agreed. Well said MDunn. Did you feel that way during the two conflicts you served in? Did they change your view? Many of us understand the difference between serving our country and supporting our troops while still disagreeing with war as the solution. Your insights would be interesting.

[iplaw]

quote:
What are the pluses/minuses of the Iraq War?

+'s

Saddam, Uday, Qusay, Zarqawi dead.

Gaddafi sees the s**t hammer lowered on Saddam and turns over his weapons programs.

Kurds are safe in their own homeland now.

Iraqis have the opportunity to create their own destiny and no longer live in fear of a despot.

No more money is being funded to Hamas through Iraq to pay off families of suicide bombers.

These are just to name a few.  Here are dozens more:  http://www.iraqblc.com/iraq-accomplishments.htm

-'s

3,000+ dead troops.

Sectarian violence increasing, which is our biggest obstacle.

quote:
And what about the loss of our troops? Would they support the war if they had a voice today?

I would venture to say that many of them would...but I'm open to you giving me some information that proves otherwise...

quote:
Bottom line, I want to know what decision people on this forum would have made if they could take what we know today, and go back to the decision of whether or not to go to war in Iraq. What would you do if you were Bush, and you knew what the conditions were going to be in 2007?

Irrelevant discussion that promotes Monday morning QB arguments.  

[mdunn]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

quote:Originally posted by mdunn

there is no +s to any war,and Mdunn is sick of the war subjects,I want my brothers home,and want no more war!No winners come out of any war!
I am a veteran of both Desert Storm and Somalia,I served 14 years with Army Rangers and I know the outcomes of each,I want a peaceful world for my newborn son...PERIOD

Awesome!

Agreed. Well said MDunn. Did you feel that way during the two conflicts you served in? Did they change your view? Many of us understand the difference between serving our country and supporting our troops while still disagreeing with war as the solution. Your insights would be interesting.

Not so much in Desert Storm,but in Somalia I witnessed some very horrific deaths of our boys,The movie Blackhawk Down is based on what happened,Those guys were in my unit,and I knew them very well.At almost 41,I would still go back to Iraq if needed,but I dont agree with the reasons we are there,never did!If I went back it would only be for the reason that my experiencees might help save someones life there.Too many poorly trained young men are sent over there and they have no clue how militant and lethal the enemy can be.
My injurys I recieved in Somalia prevent me from ever going back in,but if I could help in some way I surely would.

[iplaw]

quote:
Too many poorly trained young men are sent over there

What makes you think this?

[mdunn]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:
Too many poorly trained young men are sent over there

What makes you think this?

Boys just out of Basic training who average in ages from 18 to 23..dont have the proper training needed to carry them thru difficult situations.Yes they can shoot a weapon,are in good shape,but they lack experience.
Im not saying our military doesnt train well,they are awesome at packing in training courses in limited time.All I meant was they need more skills before they are sent over.I went to Ranger school and it was the most difficult thing I ever did in my life,but the training I recieved is why I am still alive today.I have 2 bullet holes in my back from somalia,that could have been fatal if it werent for my training.I stronly feel basic training during war should be extended for at least 4 to 6 weeks longer.

[sgrizzle]

I think the soldiers are well trained but while the U.S is trying to concentrate it's money on safe point-and-click methods of remotely blowing people up, the opposition is more of a "reach out and touch someone" type of people. Urban warfare is incredibly difficult to combat. It's like dressing your child for the snow, you can pile on sweaters, gloves, boots and mittens until they are a toasty 80degrees but then they can't even get up if they fall over. We could drive IED-proof vehicles but then they are so big, we'd also be driving over the civilians and couldn't see an insurgent if they were cleaning the windshield.

Pluses - lot of bad people gone, lots of other "bad people" rethinking their strategies.

Minuses - large number of lives lost, stuck in a lose-lose situation.

[rwarn17588]

The soldiers on the ground in Iraq don't sound very optimistic in this story:

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/16616389.htm

I also bring this up because it also quotes Sgt. Chance Oswalt of Tulsa, who said:

"They can keep sending more and more troops over here, but until the people here start working with us, it's not going to change."

Anybody know him?

[iplaw]

These soldiers do:

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/feb/04/national_guard_leaders_support_troop_surge/?state_regional

Posting crap like this is a virtual stalemate...  Whatever you're looking to prove, there's a story out there to "prove" your point.

[rwarn17588]

The main reason I posted the story was because of the Tulsa connection.

Again, I ask: Does anyone know him?

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by mdunn

Not so much in Desert Storm,but in Somalia I witnessed some very horrific deaths of our boys,The movie Blackhawk Down is based on what happened,Those guys were in my unit,and I knew them very well.At almost 41,I would still go back to Iraq if needed,but I dont agree with the reasons we are there,never did!If I went back it would only be for the reason that my experiencees might help save someones life there.Too many poorly trained young men are sent over there and they have no clue how militant and lethal the enemy can be.
My injurys I recieved in Somalia prevent me from ever going back in,but if I could help in some way I surely would.

What do you think of the "phased redeployment" idea?

I too have never been in favor of this war, the only logical explanations for it are also the most distasteful.  But I would probably be ok with withdrawing all but about 80K troops, placing those troops in bases far from action, and using them for support of the Iraqi military.  Of course there would still be plenty of opportunities for incidents like those that occurred in Somalia, but those things are already happening.

[mdunn]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

What do you think of the "phased redeployment" idea?

I too have never been in favor of this war, the only logical explanations for it are also the most distasteful.  But I would probably be ok with withdrawing all but about 80K troops, placing those troops in bases far from action, and using them for support of the Iraqi military.  Of course there would still be plenty of opportunities for incidents like those that occurred in Somalia, but those things are already happening.

I think we need to withdraw entirely,as long as we have a presence in middle east,it will never end.As soon as we leave, another radical nutcase will gain power,so it makes no difference if we leave now or 20 years from now.
It seems the Iraqi and Irainian people have developed some strange need to have a person leading them that is always has it out for U.S.A.
I dont believe the elections they hold are on the level,they are corrupted to allow the bad guy in.Both countrys population was raised in war or warlike conditions,its the only life they know.Just my opinion!