+'s and -'s of the Iraq War

[Conan71]

Our vision for a representative democracy in an area which has been dominated by monarchies, theocracies, and a centuries old feud between the two major factions of Islam is flawed.

Middle Easterners do not understand the concept of separation of religion from government and they don't want it.

About the only thing which would have kept the government in Iraq from turning into a cluster #$%& would to have replaced a ruthless and brutal dictator with a less ruthless and less brutal dictator.

I just don't see how there can ever be hope for secular governments in the ME, nor do I really believe we should influence that on a sovereign nation.  The people aren't used to it and they don't want it.  To them, their area is sacred and they want a religious preservation of it.

Unfortunately, I can't conjure up a better solution for the time being and I'm not privvy to the intel that our military and diplomatic leaders have.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Our vision for a representative democracy in an area which has been dominated by monarchies, theocracies, and a centuries old feud between the two major factions of Islam is flawed.

Middle Easterners do not understand the concept of separation of religion from government and they don't want it.

About the only thing which would have kept the government in Iraq from turning into a cluster #$%& would to have replaced a ruthless and brutal dictator with a less ruthless and less brutal dictator.

I just don't see how there can ever be hope for secular governments in the ME, nor do I really believe we should influence that on a sovereign nation.  The people aren't used to it and they don't want it.  To them, their area is sacred and they want a religious preservation of it.

Unfortunately, I can't conjure up a better solution for the time being and I'm not privvy to the intel that our military and diplomatic leaders have.

You Sir have made the statement to end all statements.........
I am truly impressed and thankful.

You have expressed many of the thoughts of the American People...

That is for everyone other than those that believe "Ya can whup those sandn*^%#@s inta behavin if ya have a mind to.."



"Viva la Nueva Revolucion de Conan Setenta y Uno"

[iplaw]

Unfortunately we have obligations and entanglements which extend beyond "planting democracy."  Since the late 70's we've had countries threatening and attacking sworn allies and recently developing nuclear programs, all while giving the UN the finger.  As much as we would all like to walk away from the ME and pretend like it doesn't exist we can't.  

Eventually countries like Iran WOULD get nuclear technology, the UN be damned.  If we are willing to let Israel take one for the team, then we have to be willing to live with those consequences, but I assure you that once they finished them off Europe would be next...

Bottom line...who always get's stuck picking up the pieces when the rest of the world turns a blind eye to evil...Germany, Japan, Darfur, Somalia, Cambodia, Nicaragua...

[mdunn]

PERSIANS HAVE NICE KITTY CATS TOO!

[MichaelC]

It's not "turning a blind-eye".  If Iran continues the path towards nuclear weapons, and they likely will, the US will bomb their war making capacity to near zero.  And I'll probably be supportive of that.  Ground forces is another story.

I believe we can avoid a collision with Iran, and the inevitable fallout, but there needs to be good-faith diplomatic talks with Iran.  That hasn't happened in nearly 30 years.  It's not Bush's fault, it's US foreign policy, and it needs to change.

Iran's leadership may very well believe that the US is out to get them, or they may believe that the US doesn't have the capacity (politically or militarily) to level Iran.    If Iranian leadership believes either one of those items, we need to change their minds.  Can't do that without talking to them.

[iplaw]

I don't have a problem talking with Iran...I just don't give it much of a chance of accomplishing anything.  I also have concerns that this would work against us and afford them more time to develop nukes if we do the standard UN 50 strikes or you're out policy.

[mdunn]

A U.S. Marine squad was marching north of Faluijiah when they came upon an Iraqi terrorist, badly injured and unconscious.
On the opposite side of the road was an American Marine in a similar but less serious state.

The Marine was conscious and alert and as first aid was given to both men, the squad leader asked the injured Marine what had happened.

The Marine reported, "I was heavily armed and moving north along the highway here, and coming south was a heavily armed insurgent.
We saw each other and both took cover in the ditches along the road.
"I yelled to him that Saddam Hussein is a miserable, lowlife scum bag, and he yelled back that Ted Kennedy is a good-for-noth ing, fat, left wing liberal drunk."
"So I said that Osama Bin Ladin dresses and acts like a frigid, mean-spirited lesbian! He retaliated by yelling, Oh yeah? Well, so does Hillary Clinton!"

"And, there we were, in the middle of the road, shaking hands, when a truck hit us!

[aoxamaxoa]

^common ground!

http://www.walter-c-uhler.com/Reviews/Israel.html

READ IT!

And IPsqueak, please quit playing the fear card.
"but I assure you that once they finished them off Europe would be next..."

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by mdunn

A U.S. Marine squad was marching north of Faluijiah when they came upon an Iraqi terrorist, badly injured and unconscious.
On the opposite side of the road was an American Marine in a similar but less serious state.

The Marine was conscious and alert and as first aid was given to both men, the squad leader asked the injured Marine what had happened.

The Marine reported, "I was heavily armed and moving north along the highway here, and coming south was a heavily armed insurgent.
We saw each other and both took cover in the ditches along the road.
"I yelled to him that Saddam Hussein is a miserable, lowlife scum bag, and he yelled back that Ted Kennedy is a good-for-noth ing, fat, left wing liberal drunk."
"So I said that Osama Bin Ladin dresses and acts like a frigid, mean-spirited lesbian! He retaliated by yelling, Oh yeah? Well, so does Hillary Clinton!"

"And, there we were, in the middle of the road, shaking hands, when a truck hit us!

I wonder if Kennedy was the one driving the truck, or is he only commits vehicular homicide when a large body of water is close at hand?

[rwarn17588]

Doubt it was Teddy. They don't serve booze in Iraq, you know. []

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

It's not "turning a blind-eye".  If Iran continues the path towards nuclear weapons, and they likely will, the US will bomb their war making capacity to near zero.  And I'll probably be supportive of that.  Ground forces is another story.

I believe we can avoid a collision with Iran, and the inevitable fallout, but there needs to be good-faith diplomatic talks with Iran.  That hasn't happened in nearly 30 years.  It's not Bush's fault, it's US foreign policy, and it needs to change.

Iran's leadership may very well believe that the US is out to get them, or they may believe that the US doesn't have the capacity (politically or militarily) to level Iran.    If Iranian leadership believes either one of those items, we need to change their minds.  Can't do that without talking to them.

I have to agree with you.  That is perhaps one of the bigger sources of resentment from some of these despots in s$%& hole countries is we won't even give them the "diplomatic time of day".

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Doubt it was Teddy. They don't serve booze in Iraq, you know. []

Can you imagine going that long without a single drink...on a side note, we sent a "care package" to a friend and it got rejected because it had a little "mens only" reading material in it...

[aoxamaxoa]

Amazing how republijerks continue to go after politicians personal lives but fail in delivering criticism of the one's who cause the most problems, one's who widen the gaps between us, and one's who are outed by their personal habits.

BTW, Ted Kennedy has not had a drink in years. Unlike the posties who continue to do self abuse by over indulging in kool aid served up by our stupid leaders.

And how does the GOP defend Rudy's past?

Political parties don't have morals so they don't have to defend them ....

[mdunn]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Amazing how republijerks continue to go after politicians personal lives but fail in delivering criticism of the one's who cause the most problems, one's who widen the gaps between us, and one's who are outed by their personal habits.

BTW, Ted Kennedy has not had a drink in years. Unlike the posties who continue to do self abuse by over indulging in kool aid served up by our stupid leaders.

And how does the GOP defend Rudy's past?

Political parties don't have morals so they don't have to defend them ....

It was a joke for christ sakes!!!Get a sence of humor why dont ya!This thread is old and going nowhere,most never do,so why not post jokes instead!

[mdunn]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Yes, but the jokes are always about the same people....talk about going nowhere.

so than this time the jokes on you!