East End In Trouble?

[tim huntzinger]

Is global alliance the only player with this mythical 'East End' that their collapse would signal the death nell for the idea?

I do not see this as a win for 'naysayers,' but a surprising loss for those who use smoke and mirrors to falsely inflate the value of their investments. F'rinstance, remember that 500 acre film studio?

Not a ghetto? Vacant industrial buildings, poverty-stricken neighborhoods, slumlords, swarthy homeless wandering around.  As a model for urban renewal what has been done now means that we will need to sink BILLIONS into downtown to create the popsicle-sucking dreamland that urbophiles want.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

More questions than answers from this hater.

So who among this forum has known that the East End partners could not fork over a measly $24K to fund them big dreams?

Could this be behind the sudden public relations campaign for the Pearl District??



Were these Partners the chief mover behind the 'East End' or one of several?

Is the thought that the City was not looking at extending a 'TIF' to the area and that is why the group pulled out?

And check the article where it sez that the plan is to connect dtown with midtown!! Ha ha ha ha!! The ghetto at 6th & Peoria is now midtown! HAHAHAHA!!

How could the Pearl District have a negative affect on the East End? Especially, how could the Pearl District make it so the East End Partners could not be able to "fork over a measly 24K"?

"Sudden public relations campaign"?  They have been in the news many times before and with the same or more fanfare. The reason its still in the news is because it keeps growing, more buildings and businessses going in, new things opening, etc.  They were in the news way before the East End people were around and the East End people were well aware of the Pearl District and its plans.


How do you go from an article saying "the plan is to connect downtown with midtown" to the claim that 6th and Peoria IS midtown?  Its between the two thus it connects the two.  You can make an argument that it is mid-town or downtown.  I have had visitors think the area around 21st and Utica was part of downtown, and in time it may very well end up that way. Downtowns are known to grow over time lol. Any, "area" can grow.

[tim huntzinger]

The article says 'revitalizing downtown with the midtown DISTRICT.' The only identifiable 'district' is the pearl jam at 6th.

[carltonplace]

6th and Peoria:
 is hust getting started. Drive east on 6th St and see the cool old brick buildings waiting to have new life. See the Savoy. See the 6th Street infill plan.

East End:
I sincerely hope this plan is not dead. I don't know how anyone excited about the growth of Tulsa and Downtown would gloat about the project's demise. This project will start an avalanche of renewed interest in the area and could drive many other development projects.

I'm with the Artist on this one. I want a reinvigorated downtown more than anything. It's getting harder and harder to maintain optimism in the face of the countless false starts. I'm keeping hope alive in this case that GDP is serious about this project and that all of the agreements will be made, and that reasonable TIF's will be approved.

BTW, just a small point of order: when typing maniacal laughter, mua-ha-ha works better than HAHAHAHAHA. [^]

[PonderInc]

Whether or not the developer's East End project takes place, this area of downtown is ripe for redevelopment...and I think we are already seeing the seeds.  I'm pretty confident that we don't need to develop downtown in 45 acre chunks to make it work.  Individuals are already getting it done building by building. (Note that I did not say "parking lot by parking lot"...solving the problem of parking lot wastelands will require major capital construction projects.)

I'd love to see the East End project come to fruition, but if it doesn't, I know that we will continue to see redevelopment radiating out from the 3rd and Kenosha and Blue Dome areas.  Perhaps we will see even better, more individualistic growth that will retain the character of the great old buildings that still remain in the area.  (I'm always fearful of monolithic development by a single developer....no matter how much I like the plan.)

[aoxamaxoa]

^45 acre chunks? Do you have a clue? I do not think that is anywhere close to taking place....

Loco Kobos? Most are.....

[PonderInc]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

^45 acre chunks? Do you have a clue? I do not think that is anywhere close to taking place....

Well, I think I remember that figure from a statement that Jim Norton made several months ago... but I am definitely not good at remembering statistics.  However, the East End brochure states that the project "encompasses over 14 city blocks."  Anybody want to do the math?  Since an acre is about the size of a football field, this number doesn't seem big to me.

[aoxamaxoa]

Jim Norton? Size? Never mind. Go ponder.

[SoonerRiceGrad]

I can't say I'm surprised at this.

In the last 5 years alone how close has Tulsa been to a breakthrough? More grand plans come from Tulsa than any other city, I swear it. From a Frankfurt Square, to The Channels, to the East End, to MLS soccer, Garden Square, to KANBAR. I doubt Tulsa Landing will even happen. But hey, at least Jenks and Broken Arrow are coming to fruition. Pat yourself on the back for that.

Seriously. Even Kanbar's starting to look like a flake. Just another 5 years of going ons in the city of Tulsa. It seems like for the last 30 years Tulsa has always been on the verge of a breakthrough, the kinds of breakthroughs that other cities would once again start to envy Tulsa, but Tulsa can't ever seem to get past the threshold. I've completely lost hope for downtown Tulsa during the course of the last 4 months or so.

I'm not gonna be fooled again. From this point on, I am never again getting my hopes up. I'll just be giddy over Downtown OKC, there's plenty of glee to go around in that department of my heart.

[V]

[PonderInc]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Jim Norton? Size? Never mind. Go ponder.

Well, AOX, you're right.  ("She's actual size, but she seems much bigger to me...")  If downtown city blocks are 300', then a 14 block area is about 28 acres.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by SoonerRiceGrad

I can't say I'm surprised at this.

In the last 5 years alone how close has Tulsa been to a breakthrough? More grand plans come from Tulsa than any other city, I swear it. From a Frankfurt Square, to The Channels, to the East End, to MLS soccer, Garden Square, to KANBAR. I doubt Tulsa Landing will even happen. But hey, at least Jenks and Broken Arrow are coming to fruition. Pat yourself on the back for that.

Seriously. Even Kanbar's starting to look like a flake. Just another 5 years of going ons in the city of Tulsa. It seems like for the last 30 years Tulsa has always been on the verge of a breakthrough, the kinds of breakthroughs that other cities would once again start to envy Tulsa, but Tulsa can't ever seem to get past the threshold. I've completely lost hope for downtown Tulsa during the course of the last 4 months or so.

I'm not gonna be fooled again. From this point on, I am never again getting my hopes up. I'll just be giddy over Downtown OKC, there's plenty of glee to go around in that department of my heart.

[V]

As I have mentioned before,I am with ya on the "big plans from outside developers" thing. But I have not given up hope just yet lol.  No I am not going to get all excited about East End, Movie Studio, Heavenly Hospitality,or Kanbar type developments anymore, so I have decided that my focus and interests have moved to the local small developer.  Its people like Jamie J and Chris B (although many of you despise the latter, at least he is doing something lol) who are moving the city forward, and will continue to do so.

We shouldn't pin our hopes on large wonderous projects to push us forward.  

Its the small developments, small ideas, small groups, small changes, that when placed in the aggregate, will change our community into the great place to live that we want it to be.


It will also be up to the community and community leaders to make things happen along the river. But as we have seen before, these plans lose steam and never happen as well.  It will be up to us to really work hard this time and not let the "steam fizzle". There is a lot of work ahead and a number of situations where the latest plans for the river, or making of plans, can fall apart.  We need to keep pushing and actually do something this time. Thats purely up to us. If it falls off our "interest radar" and then our "leaders" radar, and nothing gets done.  We can have no one to blame but ourselves. Its up to us.


I don't think Tulsa should count on being the proverbial hare, we should strive to be the steady, unresting, tortoise.  

If we want something done, we are going to have to do it ourselves.

[waterboy]

Hare[8D] Couldn't help myself.

[USRufnex]

quote:Tulsa Partners I LLC paid an initial deposit of $45,000, but on April 10, Tulsa Partners notified Nordam of its intent to extend the period of time to "conduct its due diligence" of the property. In response, Nordam Group Inc. requested an additional deposit of $45,000 to Guaranty Abstract, which Tulsa Partners paid, the suit said.

The agreement was again amended Aug. 25 when the closing date on the property was delayed to Oct. 29, with an additional $45,000 owed to Guarantee Abstract by Tulsa Partners. The closing date was delayed again on Oct. 29 to Nov. 30, when $100,000 was required of Tulsa Partners in exchange for the extension. Both deposits were paid by Tulsa Partners, the lawsuit said.

The closing date was moved a third time to Dec. 29 and Nordam Group requested an additional $200,000 deposit from Tulsa Partners. The suit then claims that Tulsa Partners did not make the payment.

Funny, how I was informed of the new website on 28th of Aug (didn't involve some guy named Deep Throat in DC but was definitely NOT a google search), only a few days after Global made a payment of $45k to extend their closing to end of October.... also funny (strange), how AFTER the big Tulsa World story broke, Nordam decides it needs another $100,000 for a one month extension, then another $200,000 for a one month extension to Dec.29....

Global pulled out of a possible development in Milwaukee--- presumably to concentrate on the Tulsa project...
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10615510&postcount=26

So, what kind of precedent would it set if these people who've worked for months and months and months on this project fail?...... while the people who bought the Towerview for $750,000 (and have done nothing for months and months and months other than pay for its  demolition after a fire) will most likely make a tidy $1M profit on their speculations...

I suppose the locals will most likely give us a "Plan B" for the East End and will want their city of Tulsa "government, wine & cheese" for a project that will pale in comparison to Global's proposal......

gee, I wonder which set of local millionaires, well connected multi-millionaires, super duper millionaires or GOB's  should we root for now?

/sarcasm

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Hare[8D] Couldn't help myself.

I wondered about that lol, was in too much of a hurry before work to think twice about it though. lol

[cannon_fodder]

I think I just affirmed my opinion on what is wrong with Tulsa.

The people with power and money don't give a sh!t.

All the dreamers, developers, and business men that bring plans to Tulsa are either local people like us - that is to say without the means to really DO anything.  Or out of town groups.

When was the last time a Skelly, Chapman, LaFortune, or Taylor did a major project in Tulsa?  I'm sure Im missing a few here and there (the Pearl), but most of the big things happening are from out of towners or with pulbic money.  Putting in new condos, trying to build a MLS soccer complex, wanting to put in a hotel and retail development, buying a third of downtown... all from somewhere else.

When was the last time anyone who has any power or influence even poke their heads in this forum?  Or any other public forum of people dreaming big for Tulsa?

Looking around the city; great buildings downtown  bare the names of rich and powerful men. Parks, University Buildings, museums, stadiums, and foundations are named after Zincs, Skellys, Phillips, and the like.  Does Tulsa simply not have people with money anymore (though we field Billionaire v. Billionaire mayoral candidates)  or are those people just not willing to dream big?

I know and understand that many people do alot in this community, but I get the distinct impression that people that could actually pull off developments like this one here in Tulsa have too much of a stake in the status quo to really want to do anything.

Maybe Im just getting frustrated, but that is the distinct impression I get.