Annexing the fairgrounds into the city

[RecycleMichael]

There is an interesting story about the progress in Tulsa City Councilor Roscoe Turner's idea of annexing the fairgrounds into the city limits.


Fairgrounds: Annexation: Analysis by city sees tax revenue By P.J. LASSEK World Staff Writer
2/4/2007

Councilor Roscoe Turner favors annexing the county fairgrounds with the hope of generating new money for the city. The city could increase its annual revenues by an estimated $389,000 to $1.1 million if the county fairgrounds were annexed, a city cost analysis shows.

"Based upon the preliminary analysis, particularly with the compelling information that we found from Oklahoma City, it appears to make sense at this stage," Mayor Kathy Taylor said about annexing the 230 acres that sit in the middle of the city. The fairgrounds is between Louisville and Yale avenues and 15th and 21st streets.

Annexing the area into the city would not change the county's ownership or operation of the facilities. The move to annex the fairgrounds has been pushed by City Councilor Roscoe Turner, who said the city needs to seize any sales tax revenue it can.

"I don't see any reason to hold back on this," Turner said. "We need to get in there and collect that tax." Taylor agreed that the city needs to collect all sales taxes to which it is entitled. "We spent a significant amount of time doing a detailed analysis, and it clearly shows it would generate additional sales tax," she said.

On Thursday, Turner directed council staff to begin preparing for the annexation process so there will be no delays if the council decides to pursue that action. The council will begin its discussions on the analysis prepared by the mayor's staff at its 10 a.m. Tuesday committee meeting.

Taylor said she also has submitted the analysis to the county and asked the county commissioners to forward any additional information they may have to the city.If the council decides to support an annexation, Taylor said, "certainly we'll be prepared to act expeditiously on it."

The mayor said the analysis dispelled concerns raised by the county that the annexation would create a competitive disadvantage for attracting shows to Expo Square because of the additional 3 cents in city sales tax. The analysis indicates that Oklahoma City owns the fairgrounds within its city limits and there is no competitive disadvantage with sales tax charges over other venues.

County officials have said they are able to attract shows by promoting the fairgrounds as a venue that doesn't charge city tax. The analysis does state that constraints on accessing county data make it impossible to determine exactly how much sales tax revenue the city could collect.

However, using a "reasonable range" methodology, the analysis estimated increased general fund revenues ranging from $389,000 to $1.1 million. Turner said he thinks the estimates are low. "I have the feeling the amount is much higher because the county doesn't know the actual figures out there, or they're not telling us," the councilor said.

City operations would be affected little to none, if the city annexed the fairgrounds, the report states. In some cases, fire, public works utilities and EMSA already service the fairgrounds. The only significant cost would be for the city to duplicate the county's policing level during the two-week fair, which is estimated to cost $500,000, the analysis states.

The analysis' worst-case scenario showed that if the minimum estimated revenue were collected and there were no offseting charge for the $500,000 in police service, a $100,000 loss would be produced. But if a special event fee is charged to offset the policing, and the high-end estimate of revenue is collected, there is about a $600,000 annual gain, the anaylsis states.

[Double A]

Once again Roscoe steps up to fill a void in leadership to tackle the tough issues facing Tulsa. Proving yet again:

[Steve]

Does anyone know the true history of the fairgrounds property and why it was never annexed by the City in the past?  Why did the City of Tulsa grow and expand around the fairgrounds over the years and was never incorporated into the City?  Probably bitter politics and "turf wars," but does anyone know the skinny?  Just curious.

[patric]

"This entire situation (possible annexation) arose as a symptom of the fact that the city has been having problems balancing their budget in looking at cost-saving opportunities," Commissioner John Smaligo said.

"I would encourage the city to follow the county's lead in doing some self-audits. Be more introspective in their outlook instead of seeking opportunities to find quick cash from other governmental entities, and doing so on the backs of taxpayers."
http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=070206_Ne_A15_Count11318


Are we talking about the same fairgrounds that had Flintco install 365-day/year stadium-style floodlighting for acres of parking lots that are empty most of the year, and then wonder aloud how they were going to pay their utility bills?  
"Decline in revenues forces fairground cuts"
http://www.tulsaworld.com/ArchiveSearch/buy.asp?ArticleID=030219_Ne_A9_Decli

[Double A]

They(Miller, Smalligo, and Perry) are just pissed that they will have to share some of the milk from their cash cow that Tulsa has been feeding for free for many years. If these RINO's were really small government fiscal conservatives they wouldn't be County Commissioners in a County like Tulsa where County government is becoming increasingly unnecessary as unincorporated areas dwindle. They are career politicians looking for the bigger better deal where good old boy networks flourish and pay to play is the name of the game.

[MADASHELL]

Chinese Proverb...Even the fool  occasionally gets it right!

[iplaw]

Roscoe gained my respect after I met him at a meeting that was held for the airport noise mitigation plan with the Tulsa Airport Authority.  He seemed genuinely interested in his constituents and has done more for getting that issue resolved than anyone previously...I was going to say he was articulate, but I've been told that's a no-no now.

[shadows]

In the archives of Tulsa history the city sought to consolidate the county and city governments into one metro-government.   The court over-ruled the combining of the governments.   The county is established by the state constitution and the city is established by charter as a politic body.  

John Zink Company for years remained an island surrounded by the city as well as other islands.  

The city is progressing to the point of no return in the cost of expansion of departments and retiring personal pensions.   The bureaucrats who control the departments have over the years been re-luctant or  refused to furnish data on how their allotted money is spent.  It has been said that even the city auditor has difficulty getting the data.

The solution will in the future have to focus on the number of years before a city employee can retire with a pension like SS is beginning its change.  

The councilor who is pushing for adding additional resources to the city income, has become a search of the citizens pockets for more taxes with less regard for increasing trade for businesses.

When a former city employee retires, receiving a retirement pension and gets a job again with the city, paid out of the city coffers, that is double dipping.   This gives such person a vested interest to increase taxes while filling a job another family needs.

It is time to curb the waste in the city government and encourage the trade in the island of the fair grounds.  

Above all attend some of the budget meetings and observe.  

[MichaelC]

Roscoe is hilarious.  Even when he's wrong, he's the best act in town.

Annex Now!

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

When a former city employee retires, receiving a retirement pension and gets a job again with the city, paid out of the city coffers, that is double dipping.   This gives such person a vested interest to increase taxes while filling a job another family needs.

You have proof of this, or are you just flapping your yap?

A few years back, during the economic downturn, city employees agreed to take a 4% pay CUT to help balance the budget. Then they went several years without a raise of any sort.

How much have you given at the office lately?

[rwarn17588]

Remember, Joe, that shadows admitted on another thread that he doesn't necessarily mean what he says.

So, yes, he is credibility-challenged.

[tim huntzinger]

I wonder if the City annexes the Fairgrounds if the Vision 2025 gods will punish the City by directing funds toward other County projects.

My proposal would give the BOK Center to the County since it is in a better position to absorb the losses.

[shadows]

AJ: The list is long of those and it is open to the FOI if you are interested.   The good councilor and vice Mayor names are two that appear daily it seems.   I believe it was in 1927 that an air compressor's overload valve failed and the tank blew up.   Another job was created to inspect all the air compressors costing the owner $5 increasing to $25 every year.  The steam boilers were inspected by the insurance companies inspectors.  When the city inspector retired the practiced seems to have died, with the inspector drawing a city pension and getting another city job.
Don't believe we have had an explosion in all this time as there seems to be a long standing regulation that all un-loaders have a seal on them.
There are many retired city employees drawing city pensions, S.S. and working on another job also.

[shadows]

The city is going to annex the fair grounds to increase revenue.   That sounds so simple.
    The county and its property is established by the state constitution.
The city is established by charter granted by the state.
The city can be dissolved.
The county cannot.
The city can be annexed by another city.
The county cannot
City ordinances may not apply to undivided plots of 260 acres.
City ordinances may apply where farm animals are kept.
The city wants to take on the obligations of:
Electric inspectors inspecting the carnival wiring during fair.
Enforce plumbing regulations on use of fair grounds.
Enforce the forbidding of living in camp trailers or RV's.
Determine attractive nuisances that could harm children.
Policing the collection of sales taxes at the flea market.
Watch each sales to see if the product is carried out and subject to tax
If it is shipped to a destination outside the city it is taxed at point of delivery unless it is an un-incorporated area not subject to taxes.
Large items will be delivered outside the city and not subject to tax.
The city will be required to keep up the roads and streets in the fair grounds.
The city will be required to police the area.
City code enforcement will require more help.  
The city will have to reduce the water rates on the fair grounds.
     All the law students may get a chance to participate when they get their ticket but as they are aware the city hires personnel from outside the city.
Then also the city may secede and form a new state called North Oklahoma.
    One can see where there is a broad challenge that may cause litigations over the next decade.  
    The rose has many thorns.  Wear some hand protectors before you cut it from the vine.

[waterboy]

Did anyone watch the discussion on tgov this evening? There are issues that seem to have caught the councilors by surprise. Especially the law enforcement changes, permitting changes and inspections.

One guy put it best. The county does a good job on something and the city wants to come in and rake off the top.

If the city wants to annex the fairgrounds to take 3% and yet still expects the county to run the place it doesn't make sense does it?