Annexing the fairgrounds into the city

[MichaelC]

This is exactly the same issue that the City faces as it tries to collect sales tax from many businesses currently inside city limits.  It's not a new concept.  Cash is not easily traceable.

Sales tax is the vendor's responsibility, not the County's.  Outside of doing something completely arbitrary and illegal, there's no real way for the City to impose it's will on the County to enforce sales tax.  The City will get what it gets, just like always.

I'm not sure what the run in to enforcement is about, because it really doesn't change anything.

[shadows]

In Townwest the parking and building are private property which is subject to annexing.   The fair grounds is of another breed as a public domain established under the Oklahoma Constitution where the city is established as a approved public domain subject to regulations of the OSS on what its responsibilities are.

It is assumed that the governor when approving a charter would also retain the authority to suspend or revoke or dissolve the charter should the city become insolvent or corrupt, thus the county through regimental  progression would take over the administration of the vacated city domain.   At present we have two authorities, of a very similar breed, where the lesser is invading the domain of the other.

The county receives a little over ½ of the amount of sales taxes from the area that the city wants to collect under the guise of a no obligation compact.  

The caving in of the black councilors on the EMSA tax would indicate a deal is underway to insure the annexing of the fair grounds.    Let the Gladiators enter the field of battle.  

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

This is exactly the same issue that the City faces as it tries to collect sales tax from many businesses currently inside city limits.  It's not a new concept.  Cash is not easily traceable.

Sales tax is the vendor's responsibility, not the County's.  Outside of doing something completely arbitrary and illegal, there's no real way for the City to impose it's will on the County to enforce sales tax.  The City will get what it gets, just like always.

I'm not sure what the run in to enforcement is about, because it really doesn't change anything.

It's not incumbent on the city to collect it.  The OTC does and remits a check to the city and county for their shares.  OTC doesn't employ near enough people to police proper tax collection.

Large retailers aren't the problem, it's smaller proprietorships that tend to skirt sales taxes with cash sales.

[rwarn17588]

<Conan wrote:

Large retailers aren't the problem, it's smaller proprietorships that tend to skirt sales taxes with cash sales.

<end clip>

Bingo. I have little doubt that the Tulsa State Fair alone is a sales-tax cash cow. You've got a million people visiting there, for Pete's sake.

But when you have a bazillion merchants to keep track of, who's gonna enforce the tax collections?

[Hawkins]

Didn't this whole thing get started when Bell's lease got cancelled?

I can't understand why they are still going to do this.

More taxes and gunshows and less visible law enforcement at the fair are what I am hearing on radio ads.

I sure hope that's not true. Why are they doing this? You know, if it ain't broke...

--

BTW, is this going to pass? Are there any councilmembers opposed?

Sorry if these are redundant questions, but I don't have time at the moment to read this entire thread.

[rwarn17588]

The Bell's thing and annexation issue are not related.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Hawkins

BTW, is this going to pass?

I'd give it a 50/50 chance of happening.  But I haven't really been keeping up with it all too much.

quote:Are there any councilmembers opposed?

Yes, Christiansen says he'll oppose it, the same Christiansen that called annexation a "no brainer" a few months ago.  He jumped around like a pair of froglegs on a hot skillet as soon as a few people (some from outside city limits) started circulating petitions and putting the pressure on.

Not certain on anyone else.  I'd assume there will be more, maybe enough to kill it.  The longer this takes, the more likely it is to die.

[Conan71]

I thought Bell's was the reason Roscoe initially approached the idea.

[Hawkins]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

The Bell's thing and annexation issue are not related.

I could of swore that originally this idea came up as an idea to save Bell's, but then developed into a 'hey, why don't we do it anyway--for the tax money' sort of thing.

[MichaelC]

The County came out fighting at the idea of annexation.  Annexation came up at the same time the County was kicking Bell's out, and the County made a major attempt to connect the two.  Stating that "the City is only trying to save Bells", and that "Annexation wouldn't change anything in regards to Bell's".  

If Turner was under the impression that this had anything to do with Bell's, that impression was stomped within a few days after the idea of annexation surfaced.  They've gone on for over a year I believe on this issue, knowing full well it has nothing to do with Bell's.

[rwarn17588]

Yeah, I couldn't imagine what annexation would have to do with Bell's anyway. Even if the city annexed the fairgrounds, it wouldn't affect the county's lease with Bell's. At the very best, it was nothing more than a nonrelated wedge issue.

[MH2010]

I wonder if the individuals in the city administration are trying to level the playing field between the new arena and convention center and the fair grounds.  Once the arena and convention center are done, they may try and compete for some of the events that are currently held at the fair grounds.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by ricecake

The current motel on the Expo Square property presently does not pay the 3% city sales tax nor the 5% city hotel/motel tax. An 8% advantage.

Or an 8% disadvantage to the City, depending on how you look at it.  

The County could build Woodland Hills Freakin Mall out there, plunder the city, and you guys would still love it.

[David Arnett]

To read an interview with Tulsa County Sheriff Stanley Glanz click on the link below.

http://www.tulsatoday.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1209&Itemid=2

[Wrinkle]

Tulsa has every interest in ongoing affairs of the fairgrounds. Besides being wholly well within the City, surrounded by literally miles of City in all directions.

What gets built there, on the old Bell's site and potentially at the Drillers' site (if they move downtown) means the City should have some say it whether it a strip club or a casino, a highrise hotel or a auto race track.

Without being part of the City, the City would have NO input at all.

Annexation is correct, even if potential revenues are minimal.