Bumgarner on Cherry Street

[carltonplace]

I've heard that Mr B is planning a development at 15th and Troost. Anyone have details?

[Double A]

I heard that rotten SOB now owns the remaining properties on Victor between 15th and 16th.

[carltonplace]

Anyone got a dollar that says it won't be an "Italianate" six story eyesore?

[aoxamaxoa]

You can make all those personal attacks on John and Chris but they seem to be doing some fine developments. The one you are alluding to has been on the board for several years. Too bad they don't own land in near east downtown....

[carltonplace]

No personal attack

I don't think changing the face of 15th and Utica avenue from tight urbanism to parking lot waste land is "fine" development. Chewing up pieces of an HP area against the wishes of the neighborhood is also not "fine". Introducing legislation to wrest control from the noisy neighbors and their voice on the city council is not "fine". Altering the look of Cherry Street with overscaled buildings that stick out like a sore thumb is also not "fine". The only thing that was fine is that there is no longer a giant cow on the corner, but now I wish I could set it on top of his bank.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

No personal attack

I don't think changing the face of 15th and Utica avenue from tight urbanism to parking lot waste land is "fine" development. Chewing up pieces of an HP area against the wishes of the neighborhood is also not "fine". Introducing legislation to wrest control from the noisy neighbors and their voice on the city council is not "fine". Altering the look of Cherry Street with overscaled buildings that stick out like a sore thumb is also not "fine". The only thing that was fine is that there is no longer a giant cow on the corner, but now I wish I could set it on top of his bank.

I loved the cow. And the giant toaster. Where did they go?

[TheArtist]

I like his development on 21st and Utica.  
As for parking, hopefully other midtown developments will have either parking behind or parking underneath if the development is large enough to make it feasable. Bring on the 6 story "Italianate" buildings. lol  Not sure what is already on 15th-16th and Troost.  Will reserve judgment till I see what his new development is. I for one was sooo glad to see that ragged shopping center with the chain link fence around it removed.  His development may not have been the best for that spot, but it was an improvement IMO.  Overscale and sticking out like a sore thumb?...  The ruin that was there before stuck out like a sore thumb even worse and in time if he continues with more developments, as I think he wants to, that development will connect to the developments on 21st and Utica.  Eventually it will all then "fit in".  I would have liked the building on 15th and utica to have had a bit more detail and quality architectural elements to bring the scale down and add interest. But its not supposed to be authentic but is reflective of the time having a more contemporary, minimalist, bent.

I also think when the Utica Place is done that it will be a great example of midtown development.  I would give my eye teeth to be able to live there. I think it is going to be beautiful, stylish addition to the area.  I wish he could do something akin to that where the Helmerich and Payne headquarters were going to be, but with a long high loggia along 21st, shops and businesses on the ground floor and living above.

[carltonplace]

I truly hope he has a different vision for Cherry Street, but unfortunately I haven't seen anything small or understated from this developer.. 15th and Troost has a nice little one story brick building (painted green) that is in scale with the rest of the shopping district and neighborhood. Anything taller than two stories is going to dwarf everything around it, especialy the homes on Troost. I'm not against large development as long as it's in its place. Cherry Street is small and quaint and comfortable...great big does not fit here.

[YoungTulsan]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

I truly hope he has a different vision for Cherry Street, but unfortunately I haven't seen anything small or understated from this developer.. 15th and Troost has a nice little one story brick building (painted green) that is in scale with the rest of the shopping district and neighborhood. Anything taller than two stories is going to dwarf everything around it, especialy the homes on Troost. I'm not against large development as long as it's in its place. Cherry Street is small and quaint and comfortable...great big does not fit here.

So you're saying a Walmart is out of the question?  


Kidding of course, lets hope I didn't jinx the area.

But on the topic of Cherry street, why has no one done anything with the properties north of 15th on Peoria?  That is the best view of downtown there is, yet there are tons of run down old buildings of no particularly great use there (Not talking about the church on the corner).  Someone with some money needs to buy off the Whataburger and A&W and do something useful with that plot of land as well.

[carltonplace]

Those old apartment buildings are actualy very cool, just a little run down. They could easily be converted into condos.

[PonderInc]

This is a perfect example of the need for "form-based" codes that would require new development to be in harmony (scale, setbacks, hidden parking, etc) with existing buildings.  Then, we wouldn't have to worry about whether new construction would dwarf it's neighbors or destroy the ambiance of the human-scaled, pedestrian-friendly, shop-front neighborhood street that we love.  We could just relax and enjoy the new development without so much anxiety and fear.

[TheArtist]

^ True dat.  However it was my understanding that this developer was wanting to build mainly towards 21st and Utica.  His aim was to emulate the Plaza area in KC around the 21st and Utica area.  

My first choice, and it would seem to be the most obvious for what he is wanting to persue, would be for him to develop on 21st. Those little medical offices, banks, etc. across from Chicos and the tall condo tower would be prime spots for his type of developments.  Businesses are already there, no need to tear down any architecturally interesting homes, and would best add to and compliment that area.

Second choice would be along Utica between 21st and 15th, but no further.  

On the one hand I like a continuity of styles and scale.  But many seem to argue that one of the things they like about Cherry Street is the mish mash of different styles in the area.  

Are we saying we like just scale, set backs, and hidden parking for Cherry Street, with no concern for the look or style of a building?

When MLofts was building those modern structures in the area and I complained that I didnt like that particular style for that area, everyone jumped down my throat.

[Breadburner]

Yes....But I will not tell....

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

No personal attack

I don't think changing the face of 15th and Utica avenue from tight urbanism to parking lot waste land is "fine" development. Chewing up pieces of an HP area against the wishes of the neighborhood is also not "fine". Introducing legislation to wrest control from the noisy neighbors and their voice on the city council is not "fine". Altering the look of Cherry Street with overscaled buildings that stick out like a sore thumb is also not "fine". The only thing that was fine is that there is no longer a giant cow on the corner, but now I wish I could set it on top of his bank.

I loved the cow. And the giant toaster. Where did they go?

To the highest bidder.....

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

This is a perfect example of the need for "form-based" codes that would require new development to be in harmony (scale, setbacks, hidden parking, etc) with existing buildings.  Then, we wouldn't have to worry about whether new construction would dwarf it's neighbors or destroy the ambiance of the human-scaled, pedestrian-friendly, shop-front neighborhood street that we love.  We could just relax and enjoy the new development without so much anxiety and fear.

I am getting really sick of form based codes being a cure all for the zoning problems in Tulsa. Riddle me this, how will form based codes give us pedestrian friendly drive through banks or how about a pedestrian friendly, walkable car wash? Use still needs to play a role in zoning. I would prefer a hybrid version of form based codes that incorporates use as well as aesthetics.