Sen. Clinton stakes socialist claim to profits

[tim huntzinger]

For the record the Bush Admin 'investigated' Williams in the wake of the Enron scandal.  Thousands of Tulsans were laid off and billions of dollars net worth evaporated.

I never credited Clinton with the 90's economy.  America is prosperous in spite of Washington, not because of it.

[iplaw]

quote:
For the record the Bush Admin 'investigated' Williams in the wake of the Enron scandal. Thousands of Tulsans were laid off and billions of dollars net worth evaporated.

Yes, I understand both of those distinct things happened...but what proof do you have that one necessarily lead to the next?

[cannon_fodder]

Taxes != Socialism

Not all taxes = socialism.  Socialism in the forced redistribution of wealth.  Taxes that pay for infrastructure, military, police and the like are not socialist.  Taxes that pay for welfare, section 8, title 19, food stamps, free day care for some, Medicaid, or huge Republican drug programs are socialist.  I never implied socialism was restricted to Hillary nor the Democrats.
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I did not congratulate the GOP for their deficit cutting.  While they seemed to make some attempts, it certainly was not in earnest.   Likewise, the republicans under Clinton managed to collect surplus revenue and then spend it.  Both parties suck fiscally, Ive been clear on that.
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I look at Kiplinger's source and got the information for myself without spin in either direction.  The numbers are there, fully disclosed along with most other politicians.

No, he shouldnt have 100% of his money in the US.  Politically, perhaps, but from an investor standpoint that is a bad idea.  His money seems to be well distributed for his age bracket - Im sure the advisers he can afford see to that.
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We are not economically in decline.

We are still the world's economic, military, and political hegemond.  We're the 500lb gorilla.  Economically, we are equal to the next six (6) countries combined.  Nearly 3 times our closest rival (Japan).  The much fear EU combined just edges us out with all 30 nations included.

We are an economic super power that is continuing to grow.  However, other undeveloped nations are able to post much higher growth rates as most sectors of our economy have been filled.  While this will reduce the importance of the United States as a solo economic super power, it will generate greater world wealth and ultimately INCREASE the wealth of the Untied States.  Relative to others, we will not be as wealthy... but in real terms, we will increase.  Wealth is NOT, as colonialist believed, a zero sum game.
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While the DOW is merely an indicator of wealth, it is a valuable indicator (not as good as the S&P).  One does not try to view the wealth of nations by their liquidation value.

[Conan71]

I fail to see how the FERC and SEC investigations caused the collapse of Willams' energy trading unit, other than making Williams come clean and hastening the inevitable.  Saying Bush caused it is a very preposterous stretch of the imagination, but I am considering the source.  

What led to the collapse of the trading unit was fraudulent business practices, which apparently were common in energy trading and have been effectively dealt with under the Bush admin.

[iplaw]

Well, I think Timmy has effectively been bludgoned to death on this thread...next topic please.

Where's Dingus McGee when you need him...

[tim huntzinger]

See my problem? On one hand IP does not understand how the Bush Admin persecution of Williams caused its stock value to crash, while 71 sez they deserved it.  Ask your stockbroker what affect Federal investigations have if you cannot figger it out yourself.

Bush & Co. (remember Dubya's affectionate term for Ken Lay, 'Kennyboy'?) saw a company involved in energy trading like Enron and let loose the dogs.  Inhofe, Largent, Keating, the whole gang of do-nothings, did not say one word in defense.  Cowards!

So now Hillary is a 'socialist' for suggesting boosting the marginal tax rate, citing energy sector profits.  I am not in the bag for Hillary, but using loathsome terms like Mangina are just the thing to give her a boost.

[cannon_fodder]

So investigating companies for potential wrong doing is the same as seizing their profits for doing well?

What would you be saying if Bush & Co. didn't investigate companies for wrongdoing?  You'd cry shenanigans for sure.  So I fail to see how this point is relevant.  He is damned because he did but would have been damned if he didn't.

Even if you disagree with the that somehow, I still fail to see the comparison between punishment because you may have done something wrong and punishment for doing too well.  Let hope you never have a good year, make lots of over time, or get a raise and the government decides to take your money for doing well.

[tim huntzinger]

And thanks to an anti-worker Bush Admin - and a cowardly Congress - OT is taxed at the same rate as if one had won the lottery.

She is talking about raising the marginal tax rate on companies that had record profits and now you want to take away immunizations from poor kids because of some notion of gubmint you picked up from  . . . whom?

[iplaw]

Are you off your meds today Timmy? I think if it's one thing you've certainly proved, it's that you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about concerning a wide range of topics...














Mangina.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:
For the record the Bush Admin 'investigated' Williams in the wake of the Enron scandal. Thousands of Tulsans were laid off and billions of dollars net worth evaporated.

Yes, I understand both of those distinct things happened...but what proof do you have that one necessarily lead to the next?

FWIW, FERC and SEC investigated Williams & Enron.  Those departments operate independently of the executive branch and report their findings.  

If Timmy is implying there was some sort of a witch hunt on the part of Bush, that sort of flies in the face of all the theories about the Bush/Cheney administration protecting all their friends in the energy business, eh?  

Hell yes Bush turned his back on Ken Lay.  Lay was a crook, or at the very least didn't do anything about the crooks who were working for him.  

I still fail to see how it's not Williams' or Enron's fault they were blatantly breaking the law, that it's the regulator's fault by doing what they are supposed to do to protect consumers and investors.

The regulators did not rip off the investors and employees.  The corporations did it by over-inflating profits, improper accounting, and essentially price-gouging (California power crisis) for which they had to pay fines.

Typical liberal crap- the perpetrator is never at fault.

[tim huntzinger]

Timmy thinks that Warren and others got some great deals on Williams' assets.  Tulsans lost billions of dollars, thousands lost their jobs, and Tulsans have yet to recover.

If Williams' energy trading was illegal where are the indictiments? If the FERC and SEC are independent than that makes Bush & Co's silence even more damning.  The fact is Inhofe let Williams twist in the wind while it lost billion$ and billion$ in assets.

[iplaw]

I'll take Revisionist History and Conspiracy Theories for 500, Alex...    [xx(]

[tim huntzinger]

Look it up.  Not a word in defense of Williams by any of our GOP delegation.  No conspiracy, just cowardice.  No theories, just facts.  Because Williams eschewed political donations they had no defenders.

Protect freedom, elect Inhofe? I spit at the name.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

I'll take Revisionist History and Conspiracy Theories for 500, Alex...    [xx(]

IP- you mind translating? I smell the fart, I just didn't hear it.

[iplaw]

He believes that Warren and Bush made money off of purchasing Williams' assets and it was Inhofe's fault for not saying anything...where's Altruismsuffers when you need him?



I think the clock just struck 12....