Gay practice on television -> gay pride

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

Money talks, bullsh#*t walks. You bore me. Next you'll be complaining about Octoberfest because of the image a beer festival portrays.

Apparently your machine kills common sense as well.  You've been complaining of being bored since the thread started...so just move along.

[cannon_fodder]

One thing I can agree with IPLAW on here, is that I don't understand why some people, of any orientation, seem driven to define their being by their sexuality.  It seems more common I'm the gay community, but anyone who knows a stereotypical "frat boy" has to admit it happens in the heterosexual community as well.

I havent seen the Tulsa Parade, but other Parade's I have witnessed are an affirmation of sexuality as a definition of who they are as well as being an abomination to the gay people I know that live and work in a respected professional environment.  It sucks that such a stereotype from the 'dildo strapped to my head' look at me type is cast on everyone that's gay.  I know I'd hate it if everyone thought of me as the most obnoxious of the heterosexual world.

Bleh.  I think I'm walking a tight rope here.

[rwarn17588]

I think this argument is splitting hairs. It's akin to saying in the 1960s, "Well, the civil rights movement would be a lot more successful if it wasn't for the loud, smelly, rutting ni**ers."

The gay community is seeking acceptance with the community at large. And you know what? It's working. Gays are much more accepted than they were even 15 years ago, and that situation will continue to improve. I'm fairly certain that the majority of states will accept civil unions within my lifetime.

And in ANY group, you're bound to have a few bad apples. But I'd rather have the gay community's bad apples than just about everyone else's.

With the NRA, you're going to have a few nuts who don't want their grenade-launching flamethrowers outlawed. With the lefties, you have Earth Firsters who essentially advocate domestic terrorism. With the righties, you've got folks who lump all Muslims with the small number of bad guys and would nuke Mecca. In my beloved Route 66, you've got a smattering of people who, if they had their way, would rip up all the interstates and go back to two-lane roads.

In all, these are not reasonable people. And unreasonable people are in every cranny you look.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

I think this argument is splitting hairs. It's akin to saying in the 1960s, "Well, the civil rights movement would be a lot more successful if it wasn't for the loud, smelly, rutting ni**ers."

The gay community is seeking acceptance with the community at large. And you know what? It's working. Gays are much more accepted than they were even 15 years ago, and that situation will continue to improve. I'm fairly certain that the majority of states will accept civil unions within my lifetime.

And in ANY group, you're bound to have a few bad apples. But I'd rather have the gay community's bad apples than just about everyone else's.

With the NRA, you're going to have a few nuts who don't want their grenade-launching flamethrowers outlawed. With the lefties, you have Earth Firsters who essentially advocate domestic terrorism. With the righties, you've got folks who lump all Muslims with the small number of bad guys and would nuke Mecca. In my beloved Route 66, you've got a smattering of people who, if they had their way, would rip up all the interstates and go back to two-lane roads.

In all, these are not reasonable people. And unreasonable people are in every cranny you look.

When are we going to have Tulsa's first hetero pride parade?  I'm just curious what wackos would turn out to protest that?

The radicals in the gay community or any cause/special interest group do little or nothing to advance the cause, nor the public image, if anything they detract from it.

It hasn't been the radical gays that have brought about tolerance and acceptance, it's the neighbor and their partner that are considerate and keep a tidy place, it's your productive co-worker who has busted your paradigm of all gays being degenerates who hide behind bushes to attack our kids as they walk down the street.

I don't have a problem with gay people, people of different races, etc.  So long as they respect my cultural background and personal preferences, and don't demand special treatment because of who they are, I'll respect them.

[MichaelC]

I've been to the Pride Parade and Festival on two or three different occassions.  I'm straight.  I've never had a problem with the event other than it always seems to be on one of the hottest days of the summer.

It seems to me that the most important reason for the Parade and Festival is internal community support and awareness.  Basically, it has little or nothing to do with anyone who isn't either gay or a PFLAG.  It's bringing about awareness that there is indeed a gay community, mainsteam or otherwise.  That if you are gay or a PFLAG, you're not the only one in this city.

For the rest of you, I doubt anyone really cares what your opinion is.  You're anti-gay or anti-parade opinions are typical, and it's not about you anyway.

[iplaw]

quote:
For the rest of you, I doubt anyone really cares what your opinion is. You're anti-gay or anti-parade opinions are typical, and it's not about you anyway.

Your comments are a delightful example of why fence-sitting people on the issue would rather just slam the door on the issue as a gut reaction.  I think that for the most part this discussion has been civilized and I don't believe that I, Conan, or Cannon Fodder have expressed anything that could be construed as anti-gay.  

BTW, we are the opinions that matter, we are part of the community they are seeking tolerance and acceptance from, unless that's really not the point in the first place...Do you think it helps when you scoff at the people you're trying to reach...please.

That's the whole problem in a nutshell.  No one is free to discuss the topic unless their opinion is lavashing praise and unbridled acceptance of every possible act/behavior.

I simply stated that the message may be accepted more readily when you apply the old honey/vinegar adage and for them to try and pass around a dose of the tolerance that they want so badly, to others around them.....

[MichaelC]

Your version of tolerance being, to come on a message a complain about a parade because you assume it's somehow about you.  You are so discriminated against, gays should feel sorry for you and tolerate your complaining.  You were walking one day down Cherry Street and got whopped up side the head with Pride Parade and it made you cry.  Got it.  

No one is trying to "convert" you.  If you hate it so much, protest it.  Several do.  It'll change the situation just about as much as posting your opinion on here.

[rwarn17588]

<iplaw wrote:

Your comments are a delightful example of why fence-sitting people on the issue would rather just slam the door on the issue as a gut reaction.

<end clip>

In the end, it doesn't matter much. The nation is becoming more sympathetic and accepting of the gay community every day.

A generation ago, interracial marriage was frowned upon and even was illegal in some states. A very few people still frown upon it now. If it takes the old bigots to simply die out before it's fully mainstream, so be it.

[iplaw]

Hmmm...I participate in a discussion on an open message board, which ostensibly is around for the free exchange of ideas, and I'm suddenly intolerant because my views don't exactly track with your's...pathetic.  You just reinforce my points.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

I simply stated that the message may be accepted more readily when you apply the old honey/vinegar adage and for them to try and pass around a dose of the tolerance that they want so badly, to others around them.....

If PR and politics was the point of the parade, I'd agree.  That's not the point of the parade, it's not simply about appearances or politics.

[iplaw]

quote:
In the end, it doesn't matter much. The nation is becoming more sympathetic and accepting of the gay community every day.

And that is a great thing, but it's in no event due to gay pride parades as Conan stated....

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

I simply stated that the message may be accepted more readily when you apply the old honey/vinegar adage and for them to try and pass around a dose of the tolerance that they want so badly, to others around them.....

If PR and politics was the point of the parade, I'd agree.  That's not the point of the parade, it's not simply about appearances or politics.

What is it about then?  Isn't it about informing the community, and helping breed tolerance?  If those are the goals, I'd rather not have you on my team if I were them.  It's always laughable when those preaching or begging for tolerance refuse to show it in kind.  The "if you don't like it, then just shut up" attitude gets you nowhere....

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

And that is a great thing, but it's in no event due to gay pride parades as Conan stated....

That's the point.  You're creating an issue where none exists.

The parade and festival is not about politics at all.  And to even argue that it's PR for "non-believers" is going to be a stretch.  Politics may have been at one time, the point.  It's not now for sure.

If you actually appear at the Festival, it's just a bunch of folks having fun, eating, buying stuff, and watching impersonators.  That's about it.  They aren't making plans to turn you into a homosexual, or to force you to tolerate them.

[iplaw]

quote:
That's the point.  You're creating an issue where none exists.

Obviously it is an issue, otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it.

quote:
If you actually appear at the Festival, it's just a bunch of folks having fun, eating, buying stuff, and watching impersonators.  That's about it.  They aren't making plans to turn you into a homosexual, or to force you to tolerate them.

I don't think anyone was saying they were trying to force anyone into being a homosexual, more hyperbole on your part.  No one even said they are trying to force tolerance.  Tolerance can't be forced.

But if they are looking for tolerance as a genuine response, which is generally the way it's presented, then snarky attitudes and brash behavior aren't the way to go about it.

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

I think this argument is splitting hairs. It's akin to saying in the 1960s, "Well, the civil rights movement would be a lot more successful if it wasn't for the loud, smelly, rutting ni**ers."

The gay community is seeking acceptance with the community at large. And you know what? It's working. Gays are much more accepted than they were even 15 years ago, and that situation will continue to improve. I'm fairly certain that the majority of states will accept civil unions within my lifetime.

And in ANY group, you're bound to have a few bad apples. But I'd rather have the gay community's bad apples than just about everyone else's.

With the NRA, you're going to have a few nuts who don't want their grenade-launching flamethrowers outlawed. With the lefties, you have Earth Firsters who essentially advocate domestic terrorism. With the righties, you've got folks who lump all Muslims with the small number of bad guys and would nuke Mecca. In my beloved Route 66, you've got a smattering of people who, if they had their way, would rip up all the interstates and go back to two-lane roads.

In all, these are not reasonable people. And unreasonable people are in every cranny you look.

When are we going to have Tulsa's first hetero pride parade?  I'm just curious what wackos would turn out to protest that?

The radicals in the gay community or any cause/special interest group do little or nothing to advance the cause, nor the public image, if anything they detract from it.

It hasn't been the radical gays that have brought about tolerance and acceptance, it's the neighbor and their partner that are considerate and keep a tidy place, it's your productive co-worker who has busted your paradigm of all gays being degenerates who hide behind bushes to attack our kids as they walk down the street.

I don't have a problem with gay people, people of different races, etc.  So long as they respect my cultural background and personal preferences, and don't demand special treatment because of who they are, I'll respect them.

It was radical gays who started the Gay Rights movement.  If not for the drag queens at Stonewall, there would be no gay rights movement.  Anyone that could pass as straight did.  It took some "freaks" that refused to be arrested for congregating that even brought us where we are today.

As far as working for the respect of the community at large:  Where would the civil rights movement be without forced integration of the school system?  If the NAACP had waited for acceptance, they'd still be waiting today.  It had to be forced upon the community at large and let them see that it wasn't the end of the world.

And what is this demand for special treatment you are talking about?  Do you have an example where anyone has demanded special treatment?