Mayor's Staff Pay Raises

[Wilbur]

Don't try to say that everybody should get the same pay increase and act like that is the ethical thing to do. The police got pay raises when city employees got pay cuts (during the LaFortune administration). I didn't hear you claiming ethical raises then.

I don't know where that claim keeps coming from.  Neither the City nor the FOP would agree with that statement.  Police pay was frozen.  Firefighters received a pay increase when their amount of pension contributions were shifted towards the City.

I am not upset with the fact that you guys are well paid...why do you begrudge others being paid what they are worth?

Why is it only the Mayor's staff ever gets to be paid what they are worth?  Having heard for over 20 years that the City wants their employees to be paid market average, why does it never happen?  The City fights against its employees year after year.  We simply want to be paid what we are worth too!  Why do you begrudge us for that?

The last police contract takes us from last place in the market survey to last place in the market survey.  I'd say the City is making great progress!

Why do you guys continually go out of your way to start fights with the Mayor's office?

Actually, the question should be:  Why do candidates lie to potential voters?  Because a candidate says one thing to a group, then, once they get in office, does something else, you expect the group to sit back and say "Oh well.  Great guy/gal that mayor is."

The last Mayor of this city to treat ALL employees fairly and equally was Rodger Randall.  Since then, each Mayor has pitted employee groups against each other when it came to salary/benefits.

I'm not saying the Mayor's staff shouldn't get raises, although I question how quickly they came.  I'm not aware of any other employee group who has received raises at all with less then 6 months on the job.

And we need to leave out the claim that her staffs' salary is under budget.  When you get to make up your own budget, making the budget larger then last year, then claiming you are under budget, says nothing.  A more true test is to compare total salary budget from this year to last year.

I'd like the Mayor and her staff to lead by example.  A novel concept.

[RecycleMichael]

Look at the spread sheet on pay for all city workers and you will agree that the Mayor's staff is not overpaid.

The city council administrator and attorney are higher paid than the vice-mayor and top staff. I have already pointed out how many police department employees are in the top ten per cent of city salaries. It is true in other departments as well.

The one employee who got a 22% raise was the receptionist who went from under 23K a year to now 29K a year. She has worked there a long time (was the same position under the previous Mayor). She is great in her job, is always answering phones, typing memos and greeting everyone who enters a very busy office. She deserves every penny she is now being paid.

Her pay raise was about the same as yours in dollar amounts, but somehow you think that is unfair.  

I am not going to defend the pay of every city employee, but when you start a thread and whine about someone else's pay you should not then argue about how you are underpaid.

[Hometown]

Thank God some working people in Tulsa are making a decent living.  I've been out in the job market here and I'm being offered money that I haven't seen since the early 1980s when I was working in Texas.  The cheerleaders among you can flip double somersaults but most of us Tulsans make "Restaurant Dishwasher" money.

[sgrizzle]

While judging pay raises by percentages may not be fair in some eyes, it is the general rule used by many large companies. Even if judged on a case-by-case basis to be fair, the Mayor has to realize this is an extremely touchy subject and should tip-toe accordingly.

Raises for someone who has worked less than a year seems frivolous. If they got a promotion, that is one thing, but if you wanted them to make $50k, why hire them at $40k and then give them a raise a few months later?

[Wilbur]

...but when you start a thread and whine about someone else's pay you should not then argue about how you are underpaid.

I didn't intend, nor did I direct, this thread into a underpaid discussion.  But when the accusations go in that direction, I will defend my position.

Every time city employee pay gets discussed here, you always make it an anti-police issue.  Certainly you are not saying that firefighters, labor & trades and all the non-unionized city employees are thrilled the mayor gave her staff bigger raises then everyone else?  Whether you are a ditch digger, a parking meter maid, an engineer or an accountant, the raises the mayor gave her staff were above everybody else and out of line with, what I believe, is policy on when raises can be awarded (as in how often).

While judging pay raises by percentages may not be fair in some eyes, it is the general rule used by many large companies. Even if judged on a case-by-case basis to be fair, the Mayor has to realize this is an extremely touchy subject and should tip-toe accordingly.

Agree 100%

[RecycleMichael]

I wrote about the police raises because you started the thread complaining about other people's raises and you have wrote on this forum in other threads about how policemen like you are underpaid. Do you honestly think that police are the only ones underpaid?

This pay increase was not for her entire staff and for most who received a raise it was a 8% raise.  What did the police department get this year? Also 8%.

The employees were now paid below what similar jobs in the city are paid, including jobs in police, fire, public works, the council, etc.

I have tried to explain that to you, but you just want to continue the argument and act like the Mayor has done something wrong by paying her staff what they deserve. You even started the thread with a statement in bold say "Mayor screws city employees."

I would not have argued so much with you if you had not started the conversation this way. I also think that is wrong of you to say so when you accepted the same raise as most of these employees.

[Stephen Colbert]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Mayor Screws City Employees

Kudos to Mayor Taylor for coming up with fiscally-responsible ways of compensating employees and increasing morale.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Thank God some working people in Tulsa are making a decent living.  I've been out in the job market here and I'm being offered money that I haven't seen since the early 1980s when I was working in Texas.  The cheerleaders among you can flip double somersaults but most of us Tulsans make "Restaurant Dishwasher" money.

HT- these aren't working stiffs like yourself.  This smacks of cronyism.   If it were a Republican mayor you'd be talking about those evil, selfish Republicans bilking the poor man again.

Am I the only one who is eternally annoyed by her dialect and mannerisms when she speaks? [xx(]

[Double A]

She needs a makeover and elocution lessons-STAT.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

HT- these aren't working stiffs like yourself.  This smacks of cronyism.   If it were a Republican mayor you'd be talking about those evil, selfish Republicans bilking the poor man again.

When ole LaFortune was doing his thing, the only people complaining in mass were GOP bloggers and so called conservatives.

I'm neutral on Taylor as I was Lafortune.  She hasn't done anything too far out of the ordinary.

[Conan71]

Double A- nice make-over!

[Wilbur]

Do you honestly think that police are the only ones underpaid?

Absolutely not!  Thus the reason my original post said CITY EMPLOYEES, not police employees.

As I have said throughout, if the Mayor were leading by example with her own employees, they would have accepted the same pay raise as everyone else.

I have tried to explain that to you, but you just want to continue the argument and act like the Mayor has done something wrong by paying her staff what they deserve.

I don't blame the Mayor's staff for getting paid what they deserve.  My problem is, only the Mayor's staff gets paid what they deserve.

I also think that is wrong of you to say so when you accepted the same raise as most of these employees.

The Mayor only gave that after it was ordered by an arbitrator.  Then, she rightfully offered the same to everyone else.

I don't expect to get paid as much as the Mayor's staff, such as Tom Baker, Susan Neal, or the like.  And Charles Hardt can have his job at $171K.  And, the Mayor deserves more.  I'm only asking her to treat ALL of her employees fairly, not just the ones on the 11th floor.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur






I don't expect to get paid as much as the Mayor's staff, such as Tom Baker, Susan Neal, or the like.  And Charles Hardt can have his job at $171K.  And, the Mayor deserves more.  I'm only asking her to treat ALL of her employees fairly, not just the ones on the 11th floor.

Just one question officer....?

If these individuals, that you refer to, on the 11th floor could come up with enough money making ideas that the "Force" could have 25% more Officers and a pay raise equal to what you just received.... Say every other year or so...?

Would this be something you could endure and continue doing the spectacular job that the "Force" now does....?

Or would this be just too much for you to bear and continue to complain until you got another LaFortunate.... That promised everything and produced nothing...?

To me she had to let it go to arbitration or she would have looked soft and the downside of the economic index would never have supported the raise she gave everyone..
Then when the bottom fell out so would any chance she may have had to get anyone anything...!

Her judgment would have been called into question on everything from, Michael Bates' choice of plaid for the day to Recycle's love of waste products..

[Wilbur]

Just one question officer....?

If these individuals, that you refer to, on the 11th floor could come up with enough money making ideas that the "Force" could have 25% more Officers and a pay raise equal to what you just received.... Say every other year or so...?

Would this be something you could endure and continue doing the spectacular job that the "Force" now does....?

Or would this be just too much for you to bear and continue to complain until you got another LaFortunate.... That promised everything and produced nothing...?

To me she had to let it go to arbitration or she would have looked soft and the downside of the economic index would never have supported the raise she gave everyone..
Then when the bottom fell out so would any chance she may have had to get anyone anything...!

Her judgment would have been called into question on everything from, Michael Bates' choice of plaid for the day to Recycle's love of waste products..

I'm not sure I understand your question.  And again, I didn't intend this to turn into a police pay issue.... but since you asked.

Having heard for 20+ years that the City's goal is to get all of its employees paid at market average, which never happens... and the City agreeing to use a list of 10 similar cities across the US to determine a market average for police salaries, of which Tulsa is always at the bottom, consider this:

As you mention, in order for Tulsa police to get off the bottom of the pay range, it is going to take a couple years of consistent larger-then-normal pay raises.  When Tulsa got 8% last year and 2% this year, those same 10 cities we use also got raises, which simply left Tulsa at the bottom.  Those same 10 cities are consistently getting (I guessing here) 3%-6% each year.  In order for Tulsa to get to average, we'll need larger raises then that consistently.  Neither the FOP or the City of Tulsa argue that Tulsa is paid at the bottom.  IF the City wants their police to be paid at the bottom, just tell me that!  Don't say and promise one thing, then do nothing about it.

You mentioned manpower.  Neither the City nor the FOP will argue Tulsa is way behind the curve when it comes to manpower.  But what drives this issue more then anything else?  Crime.  Crime is at a tolerable level, so more citizens complain about roads then they do about crime, so the city counselors, rightfully, do more about roads, because that is what their constituents want.  Until crime gets to an intolerable level, our manpower will continue to lag the national norm.  The police have asked for more manpower each year for the last 9 years or so.... and got shot down every year.  As the police stagnate in manpower, the duties police have to respond to continue to increase with population, calls for service, downtown, ......

To say the Mayor was forced to go to arbitration is just flat wrong.  The city has record income.  If pay raises can't be done in years with record income, then when should they happen?  It is all about how you choose to spend your money.  Record income just turns into record spending.

And I didn't vote for LaFortune.

But, once again, let me say, this is not just a police pay issue.  It is a city employee pay issue.  If the mayor wants to appear fair with pay raises, she makes them all the same.  Not just more for her own staff, which was my original complaint.

[waterboy]

Okay, slap me down if you must but I can't just let this thread go without making this observation. Someone should have already.

These are "at will" employees. They do not have the same protections as civil service lifers. They may be terminated for little or no reason. Their term is generally only for the term of the elected official. Remember what happened to LaFortunes appointees. The civil service employee is generally career oriented in government whereas these employees have a limited govt. life span.

Because of those circumstances an appointee should not be measured against the pay scales of police, fire, administrative staff etc. I am not sure what those employees are worth but she felt that from a private industry perspective they were worth that increase. Stop trying to make this a political thing.

As a side note: Mayor! I'm just as capable and I'll do the job for a lot less!!

Okay, back to real life.