The anti-war crowd reveals their true colors.

[deinstein]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Plus, Portland is the most leftist city in the nation.  The whole state of Oregon, for that matter, is a hippy haven.

Wrong.

Oregon has a lot of red.

[rwarn17588]

A lot of people -- but by no means all -- believed there were WMDs in Iraq ... right until those arms inspectors before the invasion went in and inconveniently found none. And the invasion confirmed the arms inspectors' warnings.

Even if Clinton believed in the WMDs, at least he was smart enough to lay back and not put the country in the middle of a quagmire. That's why Brent Scowcroft and Bush the First didn't invade Iraq the first time -- the risks were too great.

And, yes, go after the 9/11 perps before going after a "petri dish." It seem incredibly stupid to go after a *potential* al-Qaida haven than a real one. Let's deal with reality, not hypotheticals.

[iplaw]

quote:A lot of people -- but by no means all -- believed there were WMDs in Iraq ... right until those arms inspectors before the invasion went in and inconveniently found none.

Hmmm.  I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that we telegraphed our intentions for about a year before we went in...

quote:
Even if Clinton believed in the WMDs, at least he was smart enough to lay back and not put the country in the middle of a quagmire. That's why Brent Scowcroft and Bush the First didn't invade Iraq the first time -- the risks were too great.

You've stated this before, and I've proven you wrong before.  Neither Clinton nor Scowcroft intimated or forewarned us of the insurgency (which by the way was designed and initiated by Zarqawi before his death), and to say so is duplicitous.  They both opposed the war to be sure, but for differing reasons than you're implying.

quote:
And, yes, go after the 9/11 perps before going after a "petri dish." It seem incredibly stupid to go after a *potential* al-Qaida haven than a real one. Let's deal with reality, not hypotheticals.

You're acting as if the invasion of Afghanistan never occurred...

This was more than a "potential" locus of terrorism.  Iraq had genuine links to terrorist elements pre invasion.  Here are a few for you:

1.  Abdul Rahman Yasin, one of the makers of the bomb that damaged the World Trade Center, was picked up by the FBI, but later released. He went straight to Amman and afterwards to Baghdad, where he remained under Saddam Hussein's protection until late 2002.

2.  Abu Abbas the murderer of Klinghoffer on the Achille Lauro was traveling on an Iraqi diplomatic passport.  He was a part of Abu Nidal's organization that was part of the Baath Party.

3.  Let's not forget the late, great, Zarqawi who was roaming the streets of Baghdad long before we got there.

4.  The Age of Sacred Terror justified the Clinton strike on Khartoum because Iraqi weapons-scientists were linked to Bin Laden's factory which was used only by Iraq to make VX nerve gas. Richard Clarke defended the bombing, telling Meet the Press that he was "sure" that "intelligence existed linking bin Laden to Al Shifa's current and past operators, the Iraqi nerve gas experts and the National Islamic Front in Sudan."

[rwarn17588]

Again, you're talking mostly about non-9/11 stuff. Let's deal with actual 9/11 terrorists in Afghanistan first.

Priorities, people.

And the fourth item depends on U.S. intelligence, which hasn't exactly had a very good track record in this whole affair.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Again, you're talking mostly about non-9/11 stuff. Let's deal with actual 9/11 terrorists in Afghanistan first.

Priorities, people.

And the fourth item depends on U.S. intelligence, which hasn't exactly had a very good track record in this whole affair.

I think a strong corollary lesson learned from 9/11 is that you don't ignore problems until they reach a tipping point resulting in dead Americans.

We dessimated the Taliban in Afghanistan.  They have made a comeback, but they are now far less organized and in NO shape to pull off what they made happen on 9/11.

OBL is long gone from Afghanistan, the Taliban was defeated and it is now up to the Karzai government to deal with quashing the Taliban with the help of the international community (when asked of course).

There is no credible evidence that proves we have not won the war in Afghanistan, or that we are rebuiding with less vigor than what is needed.  What Afghanistan is in need of now are social, economic and infrastrucural improvements.  A well trained Army and viable economy are their greatest needs, but that's something more US troops can't provide for them, and going to take something Americans aren't very good at giving and that's TIME.  Democracy and a country with a vibrant economy and social equality isn't born overnight, especially in the ME.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:
Oregon has a lot of red.

Pretty sure I covered this above.  As your map indicates, PORTLAND is a leftist heaven.  As are the metropolitan areas of the entire northwest.

quote:grahambino, I understand that most of rural Oregon is actual conservative. Just like Northern California and western Washington. But the masses in those metro areas outweigh the voting power of the rural areas. King County was one of 3 counties in Washington to vote democratic... but the state is always taken by democrats.

Yep, I did cover it.  Thought so.
[]

[iplaw]

quote:The American public is really justified in protesting this war.  The people want to stop the war, but the President ignores the people's will.

Yes, and this is not a democracy or majority rule nation.  Get over it.

quote:
The President lied to us to get us in this war in the first place.

Care to back this up?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by teddy jack eddy

The American public is really justified in protesting this war.  The people want to stop the war, but the President ignores the people's will. The President lied to us to get us in this war in the first place.  Now he ignores us when we want to withdraw (and we should be embarassed for starting this whole war).

He and Cheney should be impeached and replaced by Nancy Pelosi for the remainder of their term.  Karl Rove should be in prison.

Who does this President think he is?

TJ- this is really old lib-tard re-tread material.  We've covered this ground so much in the past there's a 3 ft. deep trench.

Pelosi as President?  She should be tried for sedition for her own self-imposed foreign policy.

[iplaw]

Yeah good choice Pelosi.  Nothing like legitimizing Bashar al-Assad, a known terrorist and the murderer of Rafik Hariri.  He's the defacto head of Hezbollah in Syria.  Pelosi is either seriously misinformed as to who this animal is, or is actively trying to undermind the WOT.

[iplaw]

I think it's appropriate that he chose the name he did, as teddy jack is crazier than a ****house rat

[tim huntzinger]

Yeah, that Pelosi trip turned out pretty bad, alright.  She really botched that (NOT!).  Funny how Bush freaked out about her visit, all the while keeping his mouth shut about the Republicans that were visiting.

[Conan71]

Tim, the issue is that she went as if she were a head of state.  Ever see all the posed photo ops and being paraded around?  She is not a head of state, she is the speaker of the house.

[tim huntzinger]

The issue is that haters never change.  She went as the People's representative, for better or worse.  Whether Syria's agreement is worth anything is up to debate, but I think it is great that she went.  I do not recall her burning flags during her visit, spitting on photos of your boy Dubya, or making unilateral agreements.

No harm no foul unless the idea of strong womyn Democrats puts a sker into you.

[Conan71]

Haters never change?

Coming from Mr. I hate Conan71, IPLaw and all other Republicans, you should know.

Then what was the point in going to meet President Asshat then?  He hates America and will never change.  

It was an openly politically defiant gesture aimed at the President and State Department.

The Syrians and all other haters of the U.S. are snickering now because of this divided front.  That is precisely what the terrorists and other enemies of the U.S. are counting on.  Ever hear of the concept "Divide and conquer?"  This sends a clear signal to the terrorists they are winning the war.

You need to quit making up personal issues about other posters being afraid of women, races, and sexual preference.  It's a very thin veil for your own insecurities.

[tim huntzinger]

Methinks you protest too much.  I should have said 'unless one is afraid of blah blah.'  I did not mean YOU are a hater, in particular, but if you want to own that insult have at it.

Yup, them Republicans squeal like stuck pigs when Nancy goes to Syria as the rep of the Legislative branch.

Garsh I am looking for her statement where she says she is assuming the role of Secstate and cannot find it.  I must have missed that.