How will the council vote on Annexation?

[MichaelC]

Thought so.  That Emergency Clause threw me.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Who voted for and against?

For annexation:
Martinson, Eagleton, Barnes, Turner, Henderson

Against:
Carter, Wescott, Troyer, Christiansen.

For the emergency clause, someone switched votes, so that didn't pass.  I am not sure who switched, but I think Martinson.

Clearly not a partisan issue.

Pretty close to a north vs. south issue, though.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

One thing I saw on the news which got me wondering, though, was Councilor Westcott stating 'sometimes Councilors' know more than the public, sometimes not' (may not be precise). But, it implied to me there was information yet unknown by the public, which I have suspected all along.

I appreciated what Westcott had to say about all the rhetoric and name calling this deal produced.  And Westcott seemed to have heavily weighed everything and came to an honest conclusion.  

Carter basically seemed to follow Christiansen's lead on "representing the people (who emailed us)".  Troyer was indecipherable, thoroughly confused and confusing.

A little surprised Martinson voted for it, he seemed to be looking for more time.

Eagleton was dead on, slamming the rhetoric.  Best speaker of the night IMO.  Turner was firey, close second to Eagleton.  Barnes and Henderson seemed to have made an honest assessment.

I think we've got a pretty good group of coucilors, except for that weird far south Tulsa thing that will likely never go away.

[shadows]

The inexperienced city council has voted that they can hold the preverbal greased pig.

The citizens do not take interest in the qualification of those they put in charge of their $550 million dollars.  The city cannot secure the parks on the North Side.  Now the sheriff says he does not have to secure the fair grounds.   The city says they are not obligated to secure the grounds.  

Those who have booked for use of the grounds are now to be advised there will be as insecure as the parks for those attending their shows.

Now get ready for an increase on the property taxes as a mill levies  amounts to real money.

Since it was not passed with an emergency clause, which in no way an emergency exist, an energetic group could pass a petition to vacate the vote of the council before it becomes effective.

The use of full time councilors at $100,000 dollars a year would get persons with degrees in administration that are capable of distributing our $550' million dollars plus, each year without increasing fee's and property taxes..

[Double A]

I think City Councilors should make the median income for the city, no more, no less.

[nsugrad_05]

The Sheriff's Office is out of the fair business. That is going to be great for the citizens. If TPD doesnt do it. Then the fair will have to hire securitas or some other outfit with $8 per hour flunkies securing the fair. Dont that make you feel safe? Way to go council. Damn Im glad I moved out of the city.

[waterboy]

I have no problem with annexation or efforts to improve tax collections throughout the city. However, the city's process was boorish. Carter was the only one who seemed to understand that and apologized. He stood out as pragmatic, unaligned and uninterested in camera time.

They were verbose ("I'll be brief"...15 min. later we're on page 3 and counting). They were pompous. Eagleton with the prosecutorial attitude engaging Brewster in mid sentence. Or, Eagleton (after praising Bates for his intellect, integrity and clear thinking) asking the leading question about what merits the county arguments might have. Surprise! None! Didn't you read my attack piece in this weeks UT? Oh, you did? Are the cameras on?

Tulsans were blatantly disrespected last night. Each of these entities is empowered with taxing us and representing all of us. They are us. When council members make accusations of dishonesty, chortle during citizen input, point fingers and takes on an attitude of disgust towards other elected officials, THEY ARE DISRESPECTING US ALL.

Many of you naively lined up with one side or the other as though it were a moral battle. There was no morality here, simply a clash of egos and a bald faced move for power and tax revenues. And now the city says, lets be friends and work this out. Good luck with that.

I'm starting to understand Shadows. There is a reason Skiatook and Rogers County are the fastest growing areas of the state.

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

For the emergency clause, someone switched votes, so that didn't pass.  I am not sure who switched, but I think Martinson.

No one switched. Emergency clause needs a two-thirds majority to pass.

[tim huntzinger]

I think it is about time that things got ugly.  I read the 'attack' article and what came to my mind is that next election cycle the author will fold like a cheap suitcase and endorse each one of them mean 'ol County (R)'s to a person.

I am glad Eagleton was able to think independently and vote for his constituents' interests.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

I think City Councilors should make the median income for the city, no more, no less.

That would be an neat idea.  Of course, it could also serve as an incentive to shed low paying jobs and has the potential to perpetuate a downward spiral.  I guess I'd rather have the best man for the job than necessitate a civic sense of duty as a job qualification.

[Steve]

I was very disappointed that my councilor Maria Bates voted for annexation, but I don't necessarily condemn her for it.  

Her honor Taylor could still veto.  Anyone think she will?

[MH2010]

I thought Eagleton was great.  Brewster regularly acts like an (pick your negative adjective) and shouldn't be trusted on anything he has an interest in.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

I thought Eagleton was great.  Brewster regularly acts like an (pick your negative adjective) and shouldn't be trusted on anything he has an interest in.

Duh. He's a noted defense attorney who will defend even the obviously guilty. You're a police officer who is always on the opposite side.

Eagleton was pompous and prosecutorial. A lot of Tulsan's identify with that. He'll probably run for mayor.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I have no problem with annexation or efforts to improve tax collections throughout the city. However, the city's process was boorish. Carter was the only one who seemed to understand that and apologized. He stood out as pragmatic, unaligned and uninterested in camera time.

They were verbose ("I'll be brief"...15 min. later we're on page 3 and counting). They were pompous. Eagleton with the prosecutorial attitude engaging Brewster in mid sentence. Or, Eagleton (after praising Bates for his intellect, integrity and clear thinking) asking the leading question about what merits the county arguments might have. Surprise! None! Didn't you read my attack piece in this weeks UT? Oh, you did? Are the cameras on?

Tulsans were blatantly disrespected last night. Each of these entities is empowered with taxing us and representing all of us. They are us. When council members make accusations of dishonesty, chortle during citizen input, point fingers and takes on an attitude of disgust towards other elected officials, THEY ARE DISRESPECTING US ALL.

Many of you naively lined up with one side or the other as though it were a moral battle. There was no morality here, simply a clash of egos and a bald faced move for power and tax revenues. And now the city says, lets be friends and work this out. Good luck with that.

I'm starting to understand Shadows. There is a reason Skiatook and Rogers County are the fastest growing areas of the state.

WB- you and I seem to be on the same page.

I felt the fix was in before the meeting, so anyone speaking prior to the vote was just wasting oxygen.  The account of the meeting in this morning's Whirled stated as much.

Enforcement of accurate sales tax collection during the fair and large multi-vendor shows like the flea market and gun shows will be the proverbial cluster-f#$%.  It's another source of revenue which will be difficult to collect on.  Good luck getting out of state vendors to honestly report all cash sales during a two week fair.  That, in itself, would require more manpower to enforce than the city can afford.

The only easy method for accountability are the contract concessionaires in the various buildings, admissions, and a flat fee vendor/participant (for car shows, horse shows, and the Chili Bowl) charge which will be un-fairly distributed amongst vendors.

I wouldn't call this envisioned sales tax boon a pipe-dream, more like a fantasy.

Instead of chasing fairy-tale dollars, I think the city needs to engage our local legislators to buck up in OKC and demand a rebate of state sales tax collections or a share in oil tax revenues to account for the suburban retail sprawl instead of trying to create more difficult-to-enforce revenue streams.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:

WB- you and I seem to be on the same page.

I felt the fix was in before the meeting, so anyone speaking prior to the vote was just wasting oxygen.  The account of the meeting in this morning's Whirled stated as much.

Enforcement of accurate sales tax collection during the fair and large multi-vendor shows like the flea market and gun shows will be the proverbial cluster-f#$%.  It's another source of revenue which will be difficult to collect on.  Good luck getting out of state vendors to honestly report all cash sales during a two week fair.  That, in itself, would require more manpower to enforce than the city can afford.

The only easy method for accountability are the contract concessionaires in the various buildings, admissions, and a flat fee vendor/participant (for car shows, horse shows, and the Chili Bowl) charge which will be un-fairly distributed amongst vendors.

I wouldn't call this envisioned sales tax boon a pipe-dream, more like a fantasy.

Instead of chasing fairy-tale dollars, I think the city needs to engage our local legislators to buck up in OKC and demand a rebate of state sales tax collections or a share in oil tax revenues to account for the suburban retail sprawl instead of trying to create more difficult-to-enforce revenue streams.

Good points Conan. Jeannie McDaniels was there, made an effort to calm both sides. She will carry that message back.

If you ever do business with a small retailer and you notice they make cash change with the till open or insist on cash only, Bingo!, you've found a retailer who is unlikely to be showing the true amount of sales to OTC. Calling the county on what is common throughout the city was nasty work.