Spoiled Brats

[cannon_fodder]

Pennies in hand?  Per your analogy lets compare total assets of the United States to the national debt and calculate our true debt ratio.

US Household assets:  $62,500,000,000,000.00
Fortune 500 assets:  $8,000,000,000,000.00
Governmental Assets: ?  Timber land, oil leases, foreign debts, buildings, copyrights, tropical islands, foreign holdings, and regular assets - figure $10 trillion easy (how much is the oil leases in ANWR alone worth?  250 Billion?).

So I would have to say the debt to asset ratio isnt all that scary.  Even looking at the socialist countries you admire we are well under the radar for debt load.

Do you have any idea of what you are talking about before you type or do you just ramble?

[tim huntzinger]

So if'n we are so flush with cash what is the big deal with universal health care? Why has the retirement age been raised? Why the whining about 'socialism'?  If national debt does not matter why not just keep spending out of control?

Oh, that is right.  You think childhood immunizations are 'socialist.'

[Double A]

Federal Feudalism?

'Our Immigration System Is Broken'

by James Parks, Apr 8, 2007

With the immigration debate heating up in Congress, experts say current U.S. immigration policy is broken and Congress needs to heed the lessons of the past to make the right choices today.

The nation's main immigration law, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, was fatally flawed from the beginning, says former Secretary of Labor Ray Marshall.

Our flawed immigration policy encourages poor workers to come to the United States seeking a better life, Marshall says, and exposes them to exploitation by unscrupulous employers who use immigrant workers to lower wages and push up their bottom line in a global economy.

Marshall, a professor at the Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas, was a panelist at a forum last month on immigration sponsored by the Economic Policy Institute as part of its Agenda for Shared Prosperity policy initiative.

The real solutions to making our immigration system work for everyone, Marshall says, involve creating new policies that protect immigrant workers' rights in the United States and expand opportunities in their home countries.

For example, he says, we need new policies that help Mexico—where the bulk of undocumented immigrants come from—to promote job growth and create trade, investment and aid programs that reduce the country's poverty, help workers form unions and give workers opportunities that some now find only in the United States.

A recent EPI study shows that the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), which was promoted as the way to bring prosperity to Mexico, has actually hurt Mexican workers and encouraged massive migration to the United States.

Since NAFTA took effect in 1994, according to EPI, employment in Mexico has increased in the low-wage "maquiladora" industries, with the benefits flowing mainly to large companies, the financial sector and a small number of administrative and professional workers earning high salaries.

But rather than address the real problems caused by our immigration and trade policies, President Bush is pushing hard for an expanded guest worker program that includes no worker protections—and that will "hurt labor standards in the U.S.," says AFL-CIO President John Sweeney.

Expanding the H1B guest worker program would be a serious mistake, Ron Hira, a professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology, told the EPI conference. In late March, legislation was introduced to enhance protections for skilled guest workers.  For more information on the legislation, click here.

Low-skill guest workers are exploited even more than those with high-level skills, according to Mary Bauer, director of the Immigrant Justice Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center. The center released a report this month that documents widespread abuse of workers in the current H2B guest worker programs. The report, Close to Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States, relates experiences of workers who take on heavy debt to come to the United States for promised work opportunities only to find the jobs pay very little—or doesn't even exist. Worse, employers often hold workers' identification papers, putting them at the mercy of the employers even if they want to return to their home country.

As Bauer says:

   This is a modern-day system of indentured servitude. When their visas expire, these workers leave here and become disposable workers of the U.S. economy.

Unfortunately, this program is the model that legislators and pro-immigration groups are using in developing a new guest worker program as part of comprehensive immigration reform.  This report should give pause to those who want to create a new massive guest worker program.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

So if'n we are so flush with cash what is the big deal with universal health care?

It has nothing to do with cash on hand.  It comes down to the discussion we were all having about what we are "entitled" to.  Universalized health care, centralized with the Federal government would not solve current health care problems but only exacerbate them.

The founding fathers sought to limit the role of the Fed in our everyday life simply because it's unable to perform tasks like health care.

We could have all the money in the world and I would still not want the Federal government imposing universal health care.

quote:Why has the retirement age been raised?

Because when social security was created the average life expectancy was 67.  Social security was never meant to supplant long term financial planning.  I can't believe you know so little about the subject, oh yeah, I can...

quote:
Why the whining about 'socialism'?  

Ummm, because Trotsky, it doesn't work.

quote:
Oh, that is right.  You think childhood immunizations are 'socialist.'

Right.  Equating immunizations with a monstrosity like universal health care.  Nice comparison.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw
BLAH BLAH BLAH

As long as you are on record agreeing with CF that the national debt is not a threat to our future, that as long as we have televisions we should never ask for one more thing from big gubmint, and of course most famously for CF that big gubmint vaccinations are socialist you can call me Trotsky.

Yup.  Our nation is in debt for generations, household savings are at record lows, household debt is at record highs, Mercans work longer hours for less, but by golly we got us telebishuns!!

[Conan71]

Nice masogynistic avatar Tim.  I also like how you make fun of illiterate people with your manner of speaking.

Universal health care is a total farce.  Children w/o immunizations- not happening.  What do you think Medicaid and Medicare are for?  Anyone who needs health care can get it unless they live in the sticks and it makes no economic sense to build a hospital there.

Take a look at the VA hospital system and that's what the rest of our healthcare system would look like if the government took it over.  Our government is not capable of providing the same quality of efficient services as the private sector.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

quote:Originally posted by iplaw
BLAH BLAH BLAH

As long as you are on record agreeing with CF that the national debt is not a threat to our future, that as long as we have televisions we should never ask for one more thing from big gubmint, and of course most famously for CF that big gubmint vaccinations are socialist you can call me Trotsky.

Yup.  Our nation is in debt for generations, household savings are at record lows, household debt is at record highs, Mercans work longer hours for less, but by golly we got us telebishuns!!

Okay AOX

[cannon_fodder]

Tim, do you realize you post the same crap over and over thread after thread?  I could log 5 or 6 responses and just reuse them.

The basic types of Tim posts are:

1) Logical Falicy

You made an initial point and I countered with actual facts disproving it.  In response, you changed the subject completely.  This might work as a debate strategy in high school, but after that most people will catch on.

2) Misuse of previous statements

As I have said before, the debt is not a serious threat but its continued growth is alarming.  Both as an economist and a fiscal conservative I hate to see the government spend so much.  

Forums keep an actual record of what was typed, so you can go back and review other's positions instead of constantly making crap up.  You either take previous statements out of contexts or just make up new statements.

Please cite to my statement when I said immunizations were socialist or where I wanted more government debt.

3) Contrary position

In this thread alone you have argued that our debt is too large and our government incompetent and then shifted to argue that we can afford universal health care and our government is competent enough to be responsible for our health care.

4) General retardation

Im not sure why, but for whatever reason you think acting retarded (not saying retarded as an insult, I mean literally like you are retarded) is somehow a debate strategy.  I suppose it is, but its a losing one.

5) Ad Hoc statement of facts

You spew forth random "facts" with no context or commentary and sit back and pretend you made a point. Usually your facts are wrong or misused and the only point illustrated is ignorance of issues.  

This category would also cover your posting of random news articles and other links.

6) Personal Attacks or disrespect

You either quote "blah blah blah,"  call someone a 4 year old, or tell them they are stupid in an attempt to make your point.
-------------

And there you have it, a summary of 400+ posts by Tim.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Nice masogynistic avatar Tim.  I also like how you make fun of illiterate people with your manner of speaking.

Sen. Obama attended a fundraiser at Kaiser's house, so what does Kaiser - the wealthiest Tulsan - know about the economics of UHC (uni hlth cr) that you do not?  How can it be that a man who you should enshrine and light candles to because of his mastery of the business world thinks we need universal health care but you are so accomplished that you know something he does not?

Anytime I would be happy to recount how you infamously used people with Down's Syndrome as an insult.  Those people are great, and you spammed me with different images to make the point I was stupid or something.  Why go there?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Nice masogynistic avatar Tim.  I also like how you make fun of illiterate people with your manner of speaking.

Sen. Obama attended a fundraiser at Kaiser's house, so what does Kaiser - the wealthiest Tulsan - know about the economics of UHC (uni hlth cr) that you do not?  How can it be that a man who you should enshrine and light candles to because of his mastery of the business world thinks we need universal health care but you are so accomplished that you know something he does not?

Anytime I would be happy to recount how you infamously used people with Down's Syndrome as an insult.  Those people are great, and you spammed me with different images to make the point I was stupid or something.  Why go there?

First off- O/T.  Should you care to post about Obama being at Kaiser's home, post there.  But since you guided us O/T, what makes you so sure that UHC is the primary reason Kaiser supports Obama?  Secondly, George Kaiser will never have to worry about standing in line waiting for his UHC.  Kaiser sort of spoils the image of all billionaires being evil Republicans, doesn't it?  And he's not alone.

Secondly, spamming is unsolicited emails.  I've never sent you unsolicited emails.  You act like you are MR in many of your posts, or are just plain making fun of them with your manner of speaking and others here have seen fit to illustrate your actions with photos.  

Apparently, the forum mods must not think it's in that poor taste or that far off target, since I don't recall any of the photos being deleted to date.

[cannon_fodder]

That was a #3 (contrary position or shift in topic).

Bill Gates trumps George Kaiser.  He spends all his money on private health care initiatives and has often said that government health care spends more for less.  What does he know that George Kaiser doesnt?  

I mean, apparently you think rich people know more so I figured the richer they are the more they must know...

[tim huntzinger]

So you are defining your morality based on what a moderator on a bb allows or disallows?  As long as you can get away with it, it is alright, right?  Oh.  That is right, you think being a tax cheat is ok.  Oh. You thought the pic of the homosexuals being hung was funny.  And you want to make an issue of a shopped picture of Sanjaya?

The fact is Mercans are being sold downriver, working longer for less, less job security, less corporate loyalty, fewer bennies than our industrialized peers.

Inasmuch as UHC is an integral part of Obama's plan it seems illogical that Kaiser would not be aware of it or have studied the issue.  What does he know that you do not?  He is a Captain of Industry, the uber-capitalist, and he supports UHC, but you know better than he does.  Riiiiiiigggght.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

So you are defining your morality based on what a moderator on a bb allows or disallows?  As long as you can get away with it, it is alright, right?  Oh.  That is right, you think being a tax cheat is ok.  Oh. You thought the pic of the homosexuals being hung was funny.  And you want to make an issue of a shopped picture of Sanjaya?

The fact is Mercans are being sold downriver, working longer for less, less job security, less corporate loyalty, fewer bennies than our industrialized peers.

Inasmuch as UHC is an integral part of Obama's plan it seems illogical that Kaiser would not be aware of it or have studied the issue.  What does he know that you do not?  He is a Captain of Industry, the uber-capitalist, and he supports UHC, but you know better than he does.  Riiiiiiigggght.

Your self-righteous indignation is always entertaining.  You make fun of illiterate and MR people by trying to speak like them then decry the rest of us by illustrating and highlighting your obsession with them.

See how well the OTC buys your claim of ignorance when they audit your on-line purchases, and other out-of-state purchases of tangibles while travelling, and find you have never submitted use tax since 1999.  You smell like a hypocrite to me.

Your contention that Mr. Kaiser is a huge fan of UHC and that is why he had Obama here is pure conjecture unless you are in Mr. Kaiser's inner circle.  He might have had him here simply because he's a loyal Democrat and Obama is his favorite candidate or because they are fellow Harvard alumni.

The only reason I can think of Mr. Kaiser being interested in UHC is due to the high costs of providing health insurance for his thousands of employees.  

"Executives for major corporations -- who increasingly are calling for "broad" reforms of the employer-sponsored health insurance system as their medical costs increase -- "are by no means speaking with one voice" about specific changes, the New York Times reports. According to the Times, business executives who are calling for health system change "are motivated in large part by health insurance premiums that are rising much faster than inflation."

(Freudenheim, New York Times, 4/6).

Then that would make him just another selfish corporate magnate trying to cheat the gov't and get them to subsidize his profits, now wouldn't it?  Not altruistic motives to help the poor and down-trodden, just more corporate welfare to bolster profits for republican investors. All stuff liberals love to hate.

Obama still doesn't even have a clue as to what his healthcare program might look like.  Wouldn't it be a good idea to support candidates who actually have a clue as to how these things work?

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070405/NEWS/70405025

[tim huntzinger]

How can you consistently be so brazen?  YOU posted pictures of people with Downs as an insult. YOU equate being uneducated with being 'retarded.' YOU thought hanging homosexuals was funny.

So you think somehow that Kaiser is going to blindly support someone merely based on party loyalty?  Seems fairly reckless for a good businessman, to support someone who would cause the economy to tank.

Yup.  We got telebishons.  We got aercondishunning.  We got hours, screu yew.

[iplaw]