Free Speech, Ignorance and Racism

[Conan71]

I don't think the airwaves would be any poorer without him.  I could care less if he's suspended for two weeks or jack-booted for life.  Won't change my world.

[South_Tulsan]

I think Imus said that stuff originally not to be racist, but because basketball players in general--white, black, male or female--have been getting more and more loose in their personal appearance.

Look at the NBA now. Lots of tatoos and piercings, some of those guys are getting close to looking like Mike Tyson.

He thought the Rutgers girls looked "nappy,' and he took it too far. No big deal, I say.

I also saw some of the Rutgers press conference, and thought it was rather overblown at times. One girl said she would be scarred for life! Wow, what a weak-minded, insecure individual, I thought. Then I realized they are just trying to get Imus fired.

I don't care if he does, sportscaster's are generally annoying people, but IMO, this issue is over-hyped.

[sgrizzle]

Imus lost two large sponsors over it, and ultimately it will come down to how the station is effected financially. I don't think this is the worst thing ever to go over the airwaves but he has been mouthing off like this for years. His producer (who started the commentary) should also get some sort of consequences.

[Conan71]

Rev. Al was all over the airwaves last night.  Glenn Beck took him to task the best.  

He accused the Rev. of being selective in his outrage.  Imus has made epithets toward Arabs, Indians, and other groups.  He also took him to task for the rap and hip-hop music culture comprised largely of black males which has helped make words like "ho" part of our common vernacular.

Still no justification for Imus being tasteless in his comments.  However, I think Al Sharpton primarily has used the opportunity for more face time for himself, not really to defend the girls on the basketball team.

[Wilbur]

At first I thought how could he ever say that.  I would never dream of saying anything along those lines about anyone.

But the more I thought about it, I pondered the following points:

1.  Where did the terms comes from (nappy hair and ho)?  If I understand correctly, they originated in the black community (If I'm incorrect, someone please correct me).

2.  When a rapper uses those same exact phases is in song, is that okay?  Yet when Imus uses it in his radio show, that is somehow not okay?  Can someone please explain the difference?

3.  I have grown to enjoy Sharpton in the last couple years.  I don't usually agree with his politics, but I'm impressed he will talk with just about anyone (including O"Reilly and Beck) and presents his views well.  But where was he when these terms were used in the past by members of his own race?

I'm not saying it is okay to use those terms based on the above points.  I'm just saying those are things to think about when people jump all over Imus.

And I appreciated the comments from the girls' coach.  It's not about black and white.  It's about green.  How true!

[Conan71]

Speaking of green, I would imagine there will be a donation forthcoming to the Rutgers athletic program, and to one of Sharpton's coffers either from Imus, his production company, or his broadcast networks.

Last night, Sharpton claimed to have gone after the record labels 18 months ago about the language being used in rap and hip-hop.  Personally, I think blacks denegrating themselves is worse than other race's characterizations of them.

[iplaw]

Not to add injury to insult, but didn't the coaches comments remind you of attorney Jackie Childs from Seinfeld?

...deplorable, despicable and unconscionable...

[okiebybirth]

I hope we don't base what is in good taste by what comes out of a rapper's mouth.  Talk about lowering the bar.

I think the difference is to the audience in which you are presenting the information.  Most people expect rappers to be offensive, and they normally deliver.  But they do speak to their audience.

And no one is saying it's criminal conduct, free market is playing it's course.  Imus had his say, and now the public is having their say and the sponsors are responding to their concern.  That sounds pretty free market to me.

[Wrinkle]

Definitely not an Imus fan here, but had a few insights.

Imus, IMO, was originally _complementing_ the team, in a back-handed way. He was saying they were 'scrappy' fighters in a competative way. That that was the reason a team who the public at large would not expect to be in the finals was there, and a contender.

Apparently, there are at least two vernaculars for the term "ho" as well. I've always taken it to refer to the female gender, as opposed to Sharpton's 'whore' connotation.

While I would never condone the use of this term in either sense, it was in fact born and populated by the black community.

So, the only crime here, to me, is a white guy used it. And, _that_ IS racist, in a reversed way.

Tacky, sure. But, Imus is tacky almost all the time.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Not to add injury to insult, but didn't the coaches comments remind you of attorney Jackie Childs from Seinfeld?

...deplorable, despicable and unconscionable...

"Oh, and by the way, they ARE real and they are SPEC-TAC-ULAR!"

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle


While I would never condone the use of this term in either sense, it was in fact born and populated by the black community.

So, the only crime here, to me, is a white guy used it. And, _that_ IS racist, in a reversed way.

Uh, not gonna go there since a couple of overly-sensitive white people on this forum have illogically labeled me as a racist. [B)]  I do stand by my comments though that Al Sharpton is one of the most divisive racists in our country.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by okiebybirth

I hope we don't base what is in good taste by what comes out of a rapper's mouth.  Talk about lowering the bar.

I think the difference is to the audience in which you are presenting the information.  Most people expect rappers to be offensive, and they normally deliver.  But they do speak to their audience.

You're missing the point.  It's about hypocrisy.  I can assure you that the "music" that these girls listened to on their Ipods on the way home from that game was far more offensive and degrading than anything Mr. Imus has ever said, yet they choose to turn a blind eye to it.

[rwarn17588]

Interesting point, iplaw, except that rappers generally don't targeting anyone *in particular*, while Imus did. That's an important distinction.

But the larger point I'm going to make is that it's presumptuous to suggest the Rutgers women listen to rap on their iPods. I've followed the music industry for decades, and rap is on a severe slide. It's to the point where prominent rappers are declaring that "hip-hop is dead." There wasn't a single rap / hip-hop album that finished in the top 10 in sales in 2006.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Interesting point, iplaw, except that rappers generally don't targeting anyone *in particular*, while Imus did. That's an important distinction.

But the larger point I'm going to make is that it's presumptuous to suggest the Rutgers women listen to rap on their iPods. I've followed the music industry for decades, and rap is on a severe slide. It's to the point where prominent rappers are declaring that "hip-hop is dead." There wasn't a single rap / hip-hop album that finished in the top 10 in sales in 2006.

Good initial point, and I agree, but you've been locked in a closet if you think rap and hip-hop are on the decline.

Do yourself a favor and turn on MTV for a couple of hours tonight and tell me what you see.  I would venture to say that 80% of the shows on that station have hosts that are rappers, participants that are rappers and so on.  Check out billboard's top 100 this week and look at who #1 is if you don't believe me, and 11 of the top 25 are rap/hip-hop artists...

And call me clarvoiant, but I don't see a team made up of maily african american youth listening to rock and roll or adult top 40.

[okiebybirth]

Can we differentiate between street culture and public discourse? If a person chooses to listen to rap, then they will expect to hear things which are offensive in many people's minds.  But that doesn't mean it should carry over into public discourse, which I think where Imus lies (not that he has a large following or much credibility).  People who are the audience of the stations in which he resides normally don't expect rap culture to break out on the set.  

And rwarn makes a good point in that this was a directed comment, unlike the comments made in rap songs.  If Imus wants to make these remarks, he needs to appeal to the audience that buys the rap material and work for Def Jam.