Ism Collision

[waterboy]

Here's a topic for a rainy weekend.

The recent controversy and subsequent firing of Don Imus for racist and demeaning remarks is not a clear case of racism. It is however, a morality play describing what is happening culturally in America. I would assert it is the nexus of a host of "isms" meeting at a time in our history where we just aren't sure what the hell is going on.

In my youth there were only 5 "isms" in the public arena to deal with. They were: Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Capitalism and Racism. I think we were able to manage consensus on them and deal with them. Though we didn't solve the underlying factors of their emergence, we treated the symptoms.

Now, we are faced with so many "isms" that it becomes unbearable for everyday relationships to exist in harmony. Don Imus was objectionable to me on so many issues that I long ago stopped watching his show. He followed the canard that "any coverage is good coverage" and embraced controversy, mistakenly crossing entertainment with politics. He made a stupid mistake.

Here are the "isms" I came up with in just a few minutes:
Racism
Ageism (my favorite and one definitely in play with Imus)
Sexism
Feminism
Socialism
Fascism
Capitalism
Communism
Environmentalism
Humanism
Liberalism
Conservatism
Mysogynism
Fundamentalism
Spiritualism
Intellectualism
Protectionism
Expansionism
Populism
Consumerism
Narcissism
Commercialism

And the beat goes on. Do we use them to discriminate against each other or to describe each other? Either way they isolate us into angry groups. Maybe this is a good thing, I just can't tell. I feel like Dr. House looking at all the symptoms and trying to make sense of it. What gives?

[rwarn17588]

The other "isms" were always there. We just now are acknowledging them.

These social checks and balances make people less inclined to be insensitive jerks. But apparently Imus didn't get that memo.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

The other "isms" were always there. We just now are acknowledging them.

These social checks and balances make people less inclined to be insensitive jerks. But apparently Imus didn't get that memo.

I'm sure they were always there but not in the public arena so much. It seems as though we're hell bent on divide and conquer among ourselves and of course everything comes back to political viewpoint. Did you see CNN put on a Conservative vs. Liberal viewpoint on Imus' racism? As though that was even relevant?

[Conan71]

If Al $harpton hadn't weighed in, this would have already vanished like a fart in the wind.  Much worse has and will be said by other commentators with less ultimate consequences for the perpetrator.  

In an era of political correctness  and "victimism" (you missed one WB []) we are rapidly losing our sense of humor and right to a sense of humor.

Portraying these basketball players as victims is really stretching the limits, and IMO they have been portrayed as victims.  I was brought up at a time when victims were people with physical wounds, mental anguish from extreme cruelty, or had property stolen from them.

None of those apply in this case, and none of the women are scarred for life.  20 years ago these women wouldn't have been victims, they would have been the butt of a stupid joke.

My post isn't in defense of Imus.  I thought he was a droll, insignificant commentator and a moron and he proved as much.  My comment is that this is about certain individuals using these basketball players as pawns to satisfy a huge hunger in their ego and for money.  

It's also a huge media boon.  It was quite timely for the media to climb all over it since the Anna Nicole thing is losing steam now that the father has been identified.  I suspect this will still be all over the airwaves this weekend.

This was the result of the usual suspects getting involved, grabbing headlines, and there will eventually be some measure of extortion from this.  Whether it is CBS donating money to Rainbow/Push, UNF, or whatever Rev. $harpton's movement is or Imus donating money to the Rutgers athletic program, it will happen.  Either it will be silent or with much noise and a claim of victory.

[rwarn17588]

If Imus sucks, Conan, why brother defending him and his blatant stupidity?

That's what I don't understand.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

If Imus sucks, Conan, why brother defending him and his blatant stupidity?

That's what I don't understand.

You couldn't have possibly read my post and come up with that sort of response unless you were distracted talking on the phone at the same time.  

My commentary has nothing to do with defending Imus' comments.  It's entirely about people taking things far too serious, being too sensitive, stretching the boundaries of what a "victim" is anymore, and calling out a couple of prominent members of the black community who jump at every opportunity to "get whitie".

20 years ago, this wouldn't have been a week long media circus.

[waterboy]

Conan, why criticize Sharpton for doing what just about every other leader of their "ism" movement does? Just because he is more successful at it?

I don't care for some of his past actions, but I have to say he made some really cogent arguments during the last presidential elections. All leaders make mistakes, but the good ones don't stop because of them, they learn from them. He had an opportunity to represent his cause here and would have failed as a leader if he didn't jump on the chance. Opportunistic? Yes, but why blame him personally? Remember, McCain also immediately jumped in to support Imus.

You're right on point that the talking heads needed something to replace the Nicole Smith non-story with. Everyone who loves to be on camera was ready with their schtick. And I share your outrage at what passes for "Victims" these days. I would add, what passes for "heroes" is pretty lame too.

We are in the midst of recognizing the huge cultural changes that occurred in the last 20 years and many of us are not happy about it. Like global warming, it may not matter even if we do understand what's happening.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

The other "isms" were always there. We just now are acknowledging them.

These social checks and balances make people less inclined to be insensitive jerks. But apparently Imus didn't get that memo.

I hope that soon we can amend the Constitution to add to the Bill of Rights...

I can just see it now:

"Every person shall be free from being offended upon penalty of death for those that offend and are insensitive and hurt the feewings of others."

[xx(]

[iplaw]

quote:Like global warming, it may not matter even if we do understand what's happening.

[}:)]Yeah, it's just like global warming.[}:)]  I couldn't have said it any better myself!

[Conan71]

$harpton and Jack$on would be largely irrelevant on the national landscape without incidents like this.  It is what keeps money flowing into their coffers.

They look for and seek out this kind of crap and even create it (Tawana Brawley).  They help to keep racial tensions high and as self-annointed spokesmen for all black people in America, keep a lot of white people looking down their noses at black people.  A couple of my black friends consider these two "reverends" to be an embarrassment to their race.

$harpton sees himself as an heir to MLK's legacy.  He is no MLK.

Comments like:

"I suggest to you tonight that if George Bush had selected the court in '54, Clarence Thomas would have never got to law school." (Democratic national convention, 2004)

Are hardly cogent and purely racist.  

I find it odd that these two leaders have been very cool toward Barack Obama, and instead are characterized as being jealous of the best possibility so far for an African American to be elected to the White House.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

$harpton and Jack$on would be largely irrelevant on the national landscape without incidents like this.  It is what keeps money flowing into their coffers.

They look for and seek out this kind of crap and even create it (Tawana Brawley).  They help to keep racial tensions high and as self-annointed spokesmen for all black people in America, keep a lot of white people looking down their noses at black people.  A couple of my black friends consider these two "reverends" to be an embarrassment to their race.

$harpton sees himself as an heir to MLK's legacy.  He is no MLK.

Comments like:

"I suggest to you tonight that if George Bush had selected the court in '54, Clarence Thomas would have never got to law school." (Democratic national convention, 2004)

Are hardly cogent and purely racist.  

I find it odd that these two leaders have been very cool toward Barack Obama, and instead are characterized as being jealous of the best possibility so far for an African American to be elected to the White House.

Well, there is no doubt that if the rest of the world falls into the abyss of progressivism, humanism, liberalism, etc. you two will be the last two humans in paradise holding up the rebel flag!

Actually, I thought his remark about Clarence Thomas was as good as any republican speechwriter came up with that year. Racist? I can't see how.

Please don't bring up your black friends' comments. First off, do you really think they're going to share with you like they might among themselves? I can counter with blacks who have shared with me the everyday injustices they face and who hold those two men in high esteem.

This isn't however, a discussion of black activists that you don't like, rather an observation that we are fractionating along special interest fault lines and have lost perspective on who we are as a nation. Jackson and Sharpton are not the problem, they are responses to problems.

Why are they cool to Obama? Duh. The new kid in class is better looking, younger and potentially more powerful and certainly not as "black".

[Conan71]

C'mon now WB, I can cite anyone of my friends in discussion, just as you can.  Especially if it supports my point. []

I'm sorry, but I cannot think of anything good to say about a man who advocates hatred and intollerance toward people of other color and religion.  Specifically, $harpton hates white people and Jews.  Please do your research before you rebuke me on that assertion, it's very real and very well-documented.  I don't like David Duke and cannot stand white supremacist pin-heads either.

What is truly progressive about these two reverends if they are jealous of the young, good looking kid who ostensibly has a lot to offer all races and can take on a leadership role without race-baiting?  Maybe that's the problem they have with him.  If $harpton were seen as a real leader, he'd have been able to break the $1mm mark in political contributions in his 2004 campaign.  I don't think actual contributions were even half that.

More and more, isms make it seem like I should somehow be expected to be ashamed of being a white man of moderate success in this day and time.

[iplaw]

quote:Well, there is no doubt that if the rest of the world falls into the abyss of progressivism, humanism, liberalism, etc. you two will be the last two humans in paradise holding up the rebel flag!

How right you are WB.  Conan and I just hate them there dark folk don't we Conan...This is a great example of what you're talking about.

Conan and I express frustration over what we see are two men who are widening the racial gap instead of bridging it, and for our observations we get called racist.  When neither he nor I have made anything resembling a racist statement.  Just delightful.

quote:I can counter with blacks who have shared with me the everyday injustices they face and who hold those two men in high esteem.

Why would they tell you the truth whitey?[]

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Well, there is no doubt that if the rest of the world falls into the abyss of progressivism, humanism, liberalism, etc. you two will be the last two humans in paradise holding up the rebel flag!

How right you are WB.  Conan and I just hate them there dark folk don't we Conan...This is a great example of what you're talking about.

Conan and I express frustration over what we see are two men who are widening the racial gap instead of bridging it, and for our observations we get called racist.  When neither he nor I have made anything resembling a racist statement.  Just delightful.

quote:I can counter with blacks who have shared with me the everyday injustices they face and who hold those two men in high esteem.

Why would they tell you the truth whitey?[]

You need to chill. I didn't call either one of you racist. I can only guess that the limitations of discussion on forums led you to that conclusion. Was it because I mentioned the rebel flag? That is not the emblem of racism. If you think so then buddy up with someone from the deep south to understand that it represents different things to different people. I used it to reference a symbol of those who refuse to give something up even when it doesn't make sense to hang on. The rebel flag to white southerners is defiance. I see it as defiance in the face of enlightenment.

Whitey? Why not go the whole way. Call me cracker or honky. You are so glib, not the least bit delightful though. Don't for a moment think you can accurately judge the mindset of a minority just because you have some black friends.

You guys just go ahead and take over all the threads and turn them into a hate fest for libs, immigrants, democrats, whiners and weak people. Divide and conquer, give no quarter. Note the decreased participation in the forum and then go hoist a few and congratulate yourselves on what a good job you've done enlightening all the rest of us.

[tytan]

No one is saying Imus doesn`t have the right to say whatever he wants. He`s gotten away w/ things like this in the past because it was a different time for us socially. Now minority groups have a little more power and will respond to comments like this in stronger force. Sharpton and Jackson have always objected to these comments even from the rap community, Because it didn`t affect the white community at the time, no one cared. Guess what,... people care now and they have the right to protest it in full strength. Can he say whatever he wants? Sure. Is there a price to pay for it now? You betcha.....