Governor please veto these hateful bills

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Hey, I'm learning how to talk to Republicans here.

Yeah.  I'm sure that's your goal:  

I feel like Miss Peggy on Romper Room for Hateful Republicans.

I'm looking through the mirror saying:

I see Ippy, I see Conan, I see Canon, I see Breadburner, I see Cubs, I see Double A (closet R.), I see LilMikey, I see ... oh my, horns and a red tail.

You can always tell it's a Hometown thread by the copious use of the term "hate" and the gloom and doom vibe of the thread.  Always fearmongering like a good little liberal.

[Conan71]

HT-

Are you all for allowing people to come into your home and steal from you?  Isn't that illegal?

Have you bothered to read the actual text of the bill, or are you just pretending you did?  I don't see how this is even remotely a partisan issue.  It is about enforcing other laws which already exist.  It is about ending thievery from tax payers and other lawlessness which has followed illegal immigrants into our state.

You need to listen to more than the Fred Ramos' and Victor Orta's to get opinions on this.  They are alarmists who think everyone is out to get all Hispanics.

Quit whining to people with more common sense on this issue than yourself and go complain to your DEMOCRAT state Senator Tom Adelson.  There are a lot of Democrats backing this bill, HT.

Here is the summary text of the bill, word-for-word:

"The State of Oklahoma finds that illegal immigration is causing economic hardship and lawlessness in this state and that illegal immigration is encouraged by public agencies within this state that provide public benefits without verifying immigration status.  The State of Oklahoma further finds that illegal immigrants have been harbored and sheltered in this state and encouraged to reside in this state through the issuance of identification cards that are issued without verifying immigration status, and that these practices impede and obstruct the enforcement of federal immigration law, undermine the security of our borders, and impermissibly restrict the privileges and immunities of the citizens of Oklahoma. Therefore, the people of the State of Oklahoma declare that it is a compelling public interest of this state to discourage illegal immigration by requiring all agencies within this state to fully cooperate with federal immigration authorities in the enforcement of federal immigration laws.  The State of Oklahoma also finds that other measures are necessary to ensure the integrity of various governmental programs and services. "

Have at it, HT:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:dvFJSZC5udAJ:webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2007-08HB/HB1804_int.rtf+oklahoma+hb+1804&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by teddy jack eddy

Illegal aliens should be deported immediately.  If they are caught in our country a second time, they should be dropped out of a plane over Mexico City without a parachute.

No baby born of an illegal immigrant mother should become an American citizen by being born in America.

The times....they are gonna be changing. Americans are just beginning to wake up to this problem.

No one knows how many illegal aliens are already career criminals when they come into our country.

Had to fix one part of your statement.

[cannon_fodder]

Well lets know what we are talking about:

The Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizens Protection Act of 2007

I'm willing to bet a large portion of posters doesnt even really know what is in the bill.  Its even possible none of you have actually read it.  Hell, most of the people voting on it probably just look to the whip and follow the thumb without reading.  Gotta love democracy.

the section #s are correct, the subsections are consolidated (a, b, c).

§1) Short title

§2)

quote:The State of Oklahoma finds that illegal immigration is causing economic hardship and lawlessness in this state...

§3) "Human Trafficking" (really transport)
--a)bars any transport of someone you know or have reckless disregard for their status regardless of where or how long you transport them.  Ie.  You cannot pick up a Latino hitchhiker nor can contractors give rides to day laborers they should know are illegal
--b) No shelter for illegal immigrants (no exceptions given here, but later soup kitchens and federally mandated emergency shelters are exempted)

§4) No ID for illegal residents
--a) Specifies the types of ID that can be given out in this state.  ONLY employee, customer/membership cards, FED/State ID/licenses, school ID, professional/union membership card, or medical alert cards.
--b) ID can only be given to people here legally or with pending status.

Basically, an illegal resident cannot even get a Petco card.

note:  This seems to conflict with federal law that has already occupied the field as the fed allow Tax ID #s to be granted to anyone who wants to pay taxes.  Which would count as an ID and violate OK law.  When the state fights the fed, the fed wins (especially for tax dollars).

also, if you are here legally and then your status expires you ID's become illegal.

§5) If arrested for a felony the jail has to make a reasonable attempt to establish status.  If illegal, no bond (automatic flight risk) and report to the feds.  If unknown status, report to the feds.

§6+7 combine to mean) The state cannot employ, directly or indirectly, someone without legal work status.

State agencies and subdivisions must check the work status of all new employees and subcontractors employees.  Provides punishment for violating.

§8) No Benefits for illegals
--a)The State must verify status of anyone over 14 y/o that is applying for benefits.
--b) Except as  required by federal law:
- Necessary health care (except organ transplants)
- short term disaster relief (non cash only)
- Immunizations/communicable disease treatment
- Things "such as" soup kitchens, crisis counseling, short term shelter as specified by the attorney general of the US (I assume disaster relief shelter?)
- IF PROVIDED on a community level without qualification (ie. no income threshold)

An affidavit can count as verification for lawful presents for §8, but it provides punishment for perjury.

§9) Employers are to withhold 6% income tax and are liable if they do not.  (not sure how that is a knew law)

§10) The State agencies are to team with the fed.  Cities or sub agencies are forbidden from interfering in any way (cities cannot pass safe haven ordinances or tell their forces to ignore enforcement).

§11) No college benefits.  A person that lacks legal status is not eligible for scholarships, financial aid, nor in state tuition to higher level education.  (TCC scholarships?)
---------------------------

So there you have it.  Now you at least have an idea of what the law ACTUALLY says.  The text is linked above and the section numbers provided are exact.  Its only 16 pages so go read it.

For what its worth, the immigrants really arent the problem.  They are a symptom of the problem.  Our immigration system is stuck in the 1900's when there was a backlash against the great immigration period.  We do not allow enough workers in to fill skilled nor unskilled positions.  Couple that with a ready supply of underutilization (read unemployed) cheap labor south of the border and a strong demand for it here - and the obvious is going to happen.

At most, this bill is the sticking a finger in the dam.  Never mind the fact that the entire structure has failed, we are trying to stop the little leak that is spraying our house.  It will make it more miserable for the illegal immigrants that are here and MAY discourage a few from coming.  But by and large, illegal immigrants avoid state agencies anyway and will continue to come if there are jobs to be had.  The problem will NEVER go away until the underlying problems are addressed.

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner
Lol...Your a quack.....Your whats wrong with Tulsa....

Said the man with bad grammar.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Hey, I'm learning how to talk to Republicans here.  If I could ever reach a "Cubs" I'd know how to repair all the damage that the last 30 years has done to national life.  The heartland has been devastated by the Reagan Revolution.

Anyway both of the bills I mentioned have been described as draconian.  Both bills would inflict real harm on fellow Oklahomans.  The Tulsa World published an editorial urging Henry to veto the bill on abortion.  I've heard folks in the Latin community speaking up against the ill-advised anti-immigrant bill.  A simple reading of this bill tells you it will create enormous financial burdens for a state that can't even pay the bill before these additional burdens.

This is bad medicine that will hurt Oklahomans.

Davaz, most of these people are interlopers from somewhere else.  I feel like a bystander in my own hometown as I watch them ruin what's left of what was good.

I just re-read this post and as if I needed any additional prompting as to how big a moron you are, this just proved it.

What state did Reagan call home most of his life?

How about those kind-hearted California progressives you so love:

"So many of our problems are made much worse by this huge flow of illegal immigration," said Diana Hull, president of Californians for Population Stabilization (CAPS). "Overcrowded hospitals, underperforming schools, traffic congestion, and never-ending sprawl are all fueled by out-of-control immigration."

RE Calif. H.R. H.R. 4437

I've lived here the last 41 years, you've been in your beloved California for 30 of those years.  I don't think you are quite as in touch with where Tulsa is these days.

And the Miss Peggy part, I think I just figured out I know who you are and I definitely realize your line of BS is come by quite naturally.

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by teddy jack eddy

Illegal aliens should be deported immediately.  If they are caught in our country a second time, they should be dropped out of a plane over Mexico City without a parachute.

No baby born of an illegal immigrant mother should become an American citizen by being born in America.

The times....they are gonna be changing. Americans are just beginning to wake up to this problem.

No one knows how many illegal aliens are already career criminals when they come into our country.

Had to fix one part of your statement.

How did we get to the point that we wanted people dropped from planes because they came to this country?  The hatred for these people is unreal.  Is it a problem? Yes.  But what are we doing about the companies hiring these people?  Most of these people are looking for a better life and we have employers hiring them.  Punish the employers who hire illegal aliens and this situation may improve.  And then don't complain when the price of building a house, repairing your roof, going to dinner, etc... begins to rise.

[iplaw]

Oh come on okie, can't you see it was a joke...yes, i'm sure he's just foaming at the mouth to drop illegals from planes...

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Nothing has brought me closer to packing it in and saying goodbye hometown than the two hateful bills that recently passed our State House and Senate.  Anti-immigrant and anti-abortion.  I've pumped close to $400,000 thousand into the local economy in the past year and a half and I'm telling you there are other folks out there thinking what I'm thinking:  Oklahoma is going too far and there are lots of other places to live.  

Please Governor Henry, do the right thing and veto these hateful bills.  

There is nothing hateful about those bills.BTW one bill has to do with illegal immigration not immigration and the other bill has to do with tax payer funding of abortion.


Sitting there calling illegal aliens "immigrints" is a insult to every "immigrant".A immigrant is not a criminal, an illegal alien is a criminal,there is a difference between the two.To sit there and lump the two together is completely dishonest.IF you want illegals to continue ****ting on our sovereignty and immigration laws and to receive US tax payer funded benefits just say so,do not lie and try to make this issue something that it is not.

Denying tax payer money for abortion is not anti-abortion.It is saying if you want a abortion pay for it yourself.

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Oh come on okie, can't you see it was a joke...yes, i'm sure he's just foaming at the mouth to drop illegals from planes...

No...no...really. I have a plane warming up at Jones as we speak.

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by okiebybirth


And then don't complain when the price of building a house, repairing your roof, going to dinner, etc... begins to rise.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003265139_imprices19.html
More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.

You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.

The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.

The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.

Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.

At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.

[cecelia]

Meh. Tulsa's on a downhill slide and has been for years now, and the responses in this thread are a good example of why businesses and industries simply aren't interested in coming here. The old thanks, but no thanks.

I mean, really. Who wants to live in a poor imitation of Dallas surrounded by bigotry and ignorance and attitudes 100 years dead in most places? And so, while in the 90's, Tulsa began gaining population, it's now losing it.

Wow. Wonder why.

So what was once a pretty little city filled with all kinds of people has become a vast sprawling place of comfort for those too afraid to take a good look in the mirror and see what's really there.

As for what's happening in this thread, eh, typical. I've seen it go on on forums for years now. Whenever someone posts something that goes against the Limbaugh mindset, they get swarmed and called nasty names, even vaguely threatened, as the one post saying "oh I know who you are!" Yeesh.

Pretty sad. Then again, the towns which are really beginning to attract good attention, thanks to the ignorance of a few, don't mind a bit. So these days, Muskogee is turning out to be a heck of a lot more interesting and liveable than Tulsa. Just ask some of the transplants. And Arkansas has left us in the dust economically - hm.

But maybe one day some of you will wake up and realize the Eisenhower years were a long time ago and Ozzie and Harriet were just a television show. And in the world today,  it isn't just white dudes who have rights. Except, of course, in Tulsa.

[iplaw]

Damn the whole world's not white? Eeeek!  Run for the hills.  [xx(]

Well, lemme jist go git my spectacles so I kin read up them thar fancy words you giveded us.  Aww, what's the use...I beez too dumb and backwoods to learnt anything new nohow.

You're spot on.  We just love threatening one another...you haven't been around here very long have you?

and Muskogee...[}:)]

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by cecelia

As for what's happening in this thread, eh, typical. I've seen it go on on forums for years now. Whenever someone posts something that goes against the Limbaugh mindset, they get swarmed and called nasty names, even vaguely threatened, as the one post saying "oh I know who you are!" Yeesh.

The "Political Arena" of this particular Forum is largely reserved for those who generally have no other business being here, than to be completely obnoxious.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by cecelia

As for what's happening in this thread, eh, typical. I've seen it go on on forums for years now. Whenever someone posts something that goes against the Limbaugh mindset, they get swarmed and called nasty names, even vaguely threatened, as the one post saying "oh I know who you are!" Yeesh.

The "Political Arena" of this particular Forum is largely reserved for those who generally have no other business being here, than to be completely obnoxious.

Hence your presence here.[]