The surge is working!

[iplaw]

Maybe you didn't hear, but Iraq has already nationalized their oil resources by revivingINOC. And also see.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Boy, that's a nice option.

Basically, the country's in far worse shape than it was four-plus years ago.

Remind me why we invaded again.

Why?  You've been told a thousand times already.  What makes you think you'd get it this time?  

I won't bother repeating myself.

You do realize one of your links is to the Moonie newspaper, right?

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Maybe you didn't hear, but Iraq has already nationalized their oil resources by revivingINOC.

From the article you site.

quote:Petroleum Revenues

According to the constitution, the Council of Ministers must submit to parliament a draft federal law regulating matters pertaining to the distribution of oil and gas revenues.

Oil revenues include all government revenues from oil and gas, royalties, signing awards, and production awards from petroleum contracts with foreign or local companies.

Revenues must be deposited into an Iraqi Central Bank account labeled "Oil Revenue Treasury" and managed by the Council of Ministers and the Treasury Ministry.

The Oil Revenue Treasury must be administered by an independent entity headed by a person holding the rank of minister. This entity must include representatives of the federal government, regional governments, and governorates, as well as a number of independent consultants. The entity must be associated with the Council of Ministers and must be formed immediately.

The government's revenues, including oil revenues, must be distributed in a fair and just way in adherence to the constitution.

Another treasury must be created, called the "Future Treasury," to hold a percentage of oil revenue.

Exploration-And-Production Contracts

The holder of an exploration-and-production contract will have the exclusive right to conduct petroleum exploration and production in the contract area, as well as the right of transportation.

The holder will have exclusive exploration-and-production rights for a maximum of four years; but may be granted an additional two years to complete the work. A third period of exploration may be granted for a period of two years, provided the extension is justified by "the quality and substance of the work program."

Should a discovery be made, the exclusive exploration-and-production right may be retained by the holder for the purposes of completing the operations initiated within a specified area to assess or determine the commercial value of the discovery for an additional two-year period or, in the case of a nonassociated natural-gas discovery, for an additional period not to exceed four years.

The INOC and other holders of an exploration-and-production contract may retain the exclusive right to develop and produce petroleum within the limits of a development and production area for a period to be determined by the Oil and Gas Council, but not exceeding 20 years from the date of the approval of the field-development plan. In cases where technical and economic considerations justify a longer production period, the Council of Ministers may grant an extension not to exceed five years.

That definitely is not Nationalization.  No nationalized production, revenues, and production contracts for corporations.

[iplaw]

You skipped the entire section on INOC:

The INOC's scope of operations includes managing and operating existing production fields, including the operations of the North Oil Company and South Oil Company. It will also participate in the development and production of discovered but undeveloped fields and carrying out exploration and production operations in new areas by applying for exploration and production rights based on competition. It shall own, operate, and manage the oil and gas pipeline networks, as well as export terminals. However, after two years, the federal Oil and Gas Council will decide the entity responsible for operating the pipeline network and terminal operations based on a proposal submitted by the Oil Ministry in consultation with the INOC. Such a proposal will need the approval of the Council of Ministers.

Revenues are going to be discussed in Dubai.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Boy, that's a nice option.

Basically, the country's in far worse shape than it was four-plus years ago.

Remind me why we invaded again.

Why?  You've been told a thousand times already.  What makes you think you'd get it this time?  

I won't bother repeating myself.

You do realize one of your links is to the Moonie newspaper, right?

I can give you 15 others citations from other sources if you want.

[MichaelC]

That does not explain 20-year production contracts with corporations.  It is not, anywhere in the neighborhood, of Nationalization of Iraqi Oil.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

That does not explain 20-year production contracts with corporations.  It is not, anywhere in the neighborhood, of Nationalization of Iraqi Oil.

What contracts are you talking about?

Despite claims by some critics that the Bush administration invaded Iraq to take control of its oil, the first contracts with major oil firms from Iraq's new government are likely to go not to U.S. companies, but rather to companies from China, India, Vietnam, and Indonesia. -- CNN Money

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

What contracts are you talking about?

Despite claims by some critics that the Bush administration invaded Iraq to take control of its oil, the first contracts with major oil firms from Iraq's new government are likely to go not to U.S. companies, but rather to companies from China, India, Vietnam, and Indonesia. -- CNN Money

You answered you're own question.  You tried to prove "Nationalization", obviously that's not anywhere close to being factual.

[iplaw]

What contracts are you talking about?  I'm really interested in hearing where you heard about these contracts that appear not to exist...

And the oil reserves can most certainly be considered nationalized even if production is contracted out.  Just because Iraq doesn't want to produce the oil doesn't mean its reserves aren't nationalized assets.  

Would you prefer them to just sit on the oil?

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Boy, that's a nice option.

Basically, the country's in far worse shape than it was four-plus years ago.

Remind me why we invaded again.

Why?  You've been told a thousand times already.  What makes you think you'd get it this time?  

I won't bother repeating myself.

You do realize one of your links is to the Moonie newspaper, right?

I can give you 15 others citations from other sources if you want.

Then do so and make it from more reputable sources than you have been. You call others on biased sources, well, yours are terrible and The Rev Moon's Washington Times is among the worst.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

What contracts are you talking about?  I'm really interested in hearing where you heard about these contracts that appear not to exist...

And the oil reserves can most certainly be nationalized even if production is contracted out.  Just because Iraq doesn't want to produce the oil doesn't mean it's reserves aren't nationalized.  

It's back up there in that INOC article.  No one said anything about US contracts in Iraq, except for you.  

It should be obvious to anyone that Iraq recieving "royalities" is opposed to the concept of Iraq "nationalization".  Only a percentage of Iraqi Oil, perhaps a large percentage, goes back into Iraq.  Certainly not all of it, that would be Nationalization.

[iplaw]

Really?

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

That does not explain 20-year production contracts with corporations.  It is not, anywhere in the neighborhood, of Nationalization of Iraqi Oil.

What contracts are you talking about?

quote:
It should be obvious to anyone that Iraq recieving "royalities" is opposed to the concept of Iraq "nationalization". Only a percentage of Iraqi Oil, perhaps a large percentage, goes back into Iraq. Certainly not all of it, that would be Nationalization.

No concept of nationalization requires what you're saying.  Nationalization only requires that the "nation" have control over the resource and not private entities.  INOC and the Ministry of Oil decide who gets the contracts, the national organization is in complete control.  There are no private entities that can award contracts for production.

Iraq simply has no interest in refining or production, just like Iran.

[iplaw]

Swake:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/01/1070127352268.html

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/005252.php

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2003/ea_nkorea_10_27.html

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1998/s980625-dprk.htm

If you don't like those I have more.

[shadows]

When one is reading the posts in order for them to understand why we are in an undeclared war in violation of our obligations to the ME and the world.  We are bombing the women and children telling them they are our enemies.

We should be looking to 20 years from now when we will face the same conduct by other armies.

51% of the females are not married.

The are getting the higher percentages of collage degrees.

On the moral scale they have taken over the obligations that once was restricted to marriage.

They have the pill.

Abortion on demand.

Immigrants are having babies and filling our schools.

In twenty years the US army will have passed with the days of the Gentiles.  

Can we loose face if we get out of the ME and start now to prepare the phantom army to defend our own homeland?   It is easy like when the Roman army left England.  

 

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by shadows


Can we loose face if we get out of the ME and start now to prepare the phantom army to defend our own homeland?   It is easy like when the Roman army left England.  

That's exactly what the various terrorist cells are expecting us to do.  If we tuck tail and run, it will only be a matter of time before this crap comes back to our own doorstep.  

It was a little different back in the Roman Empire.  They didn't have things like cruise missles, nuclear warheads, and jet-fuel laden Boeing 767's.  Back in those days you could go home and hide behind your wall until the enemy got bored or tired of having hot oil poured on them and they went away.

With the type of enemy we face these days, the only sane approach is a pro-active one.  If it weren't for us invading Iraq, terrorists would invent some other justification for being bent on our destruction.