Rally Draws Attention To Immigration Bill

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by TulsaFan-inTexas

I'll not argue with Anyone that has the IDIOTIC notion that deportation of illegal immigrants is akin to the Nazis treatment of the Jews. As for the whole college idea, it's ludicrous. Maybe you should start an underground tunnel to help these people get in while you're at it.
I'm seriously beginning to get the idea there is something in the water up in Tulsa. You won't hear this kind of garbage coming from the front lines of the illegal immigrant problem down here. Perhaps you guys need to get out of your white bread houses up in Tulsa and come down here where the problems with illegal immigration are a big reality.

And let me give you a hit; COWTOWING to millions of THUGS that demand citizenship is NOT the way to do it.

the illegals are trying to set a dangerous precendent.  The latest prevailing excuse is "we all pay taxes, so we should be able to stay here"

Maybe that works in Mexico, but paying taxes is NOT the only requirement for residency here, contrary to popular belief.  This kind of comment cannot be allowed to stand.  If you ever hear an illegal say this, you need to set them straight.  They are trying to appeal to the greed factor.  Sorry illegals, we know you are employed by greedy employers who take advantage of you and engage in anti competitive behavior, but 1804 is going to take care of them.  Start packing your bags.

"We pay taxes" is the biggest bunch of horse sh!t perpetrated on us by this crowd.  

They get jobs using bogus social security numbers or outright identity theft.  They get "documentation" through illegal means.

They have the minimal amount of Federal and State taxes as possible taken out of their checks, and do not file a return to settle up with the gov't on April 15.  Partially because they live in fear of being traced, but mainly because they are concerned with what they can earn here, not what they can give back to support government-provided services they take advantage of.

[cannon_fodder]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Our dumb immigration law and policy are more to blame than the workers coming here.  We have a good thing going here: high wages, low corruption, and a nice standard of living.  I cannot blame them for wanting to be a part of it.

Our laws make it so many people will not have that chance.  Not only low wage workers from the South, by attorneys, engineers, accountants, physicists, artists and many others.  Our nation is starved for both cheap labor, skilled labor, and educated labor.  But we turn people away at the door because of an arbitrary number made up by a desk jockey in Washington (made up - as in it has no real basis).

Lets solve the root cause - failed immigration policy, before making another half-assed attempt at border security.  When those that want to come and WORK (not get handouts) are able to do so, our time will be better spent fighting to keep true miscreants and sloths out of our country.

[jdb]

"I'll not argue with Anyone that has the IDIOTIC notion that deportation..." - Hothead in Texas

Different tact.

I assume your in favor of rounding-up some 10-20 million people and deporting them?

Any provisions for a forwarding address?

Over night raides SWAT like with copters?

MythBusters busted the Catipult border crossing so what's that leave? Cargo planes, Semis, one big-donkey water slide back to the otherside?
Millions of people, all ages, the unfit to travel, the young girl along side the Gang banger in a boxcar?

I know your not talking to me with the rest of your post...as if I were shoved into a corner I'd be a Minuteman: albeit, warm and fuzzy with the elderly.

The reform issue centers on addressing those here in the states, no?
Creating an enforceble policy, no?
If hunting for workable solution other then a mass deportation makes me a "sympathizer" then ok, I am also a jay-walker which makes me a criminal, so be the name calling.


But in telling me I should be ashamed of myself for dragging Hitler out of the closet to prop up the argument....I think you should concider that you might be the one promoting a repeat of something AKIN to the early stages of WWII - the mass deportation of a particular group of people that were deemed unwanted. So back at you, or - how about just chilling out man?

It's your blood pressure, jdb

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

"I'll not argue with Anyone that has the IDIOTIC notion that deportation..." - Hothead in Texas

Different tact.

I assume your in favor of rounding-up some 10-20 million people and deporting them?

Any provisions for a forwarding address?

Over night raides SWAT like with copters?

MythBusters busted the Catipult border crossing so what's that leave? Cargo planes, Semis, one big-donkey water slide back to the otherside?
Millions of people, all ages, the unfit to travel, the young girl along side the Gang banger in a boxcar?

I know your not talking to me with the rest of your post...as if I were shoved into a corner I'd be a Minuteman, albeit warm and fuzzy over trigger happy though.


In telling me I should be ashamed of myself for dragging Hitler out of the closet to prop up the argument....I think you should concider that you might be the one promoting a repeat of something AKIN to the early stages of WWII - the mass deportation of a particular group of people that were deemed unwanted. So back at you or - how about just chilling out man?

It's your blood pressure, jdb

And there again we have another illegal alien sympathizer going to extremes by saying things like getting rid of a particular group of people is akin to the treatment of the Jews. I see that you toned it down somewhat now, by saying that it's reminiscent of the "early stages of WWII."

And who said anything about rounding them all up? I say that they will go back through attrition once the dangling carrot of jobs, anchor babies, employment, and benefits are taken away.

Want to answer the question about what you are going to do about the CONTINUED invasion or are you going to claim that it's also similar to the Nazi treatment of the Jews that we put up a fence to keep out those that want to BREAK OUR LAWS AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OUR SYSTEM. It's tripe that comes out of sympathizers like you that makes people hotheaded. Better a hothead than a criminal sympathizer.

And btw, CROSSING the border and coming into this country illegally IS NOT similar to jaywalking. I see where you and the rest of your ilk are coming from a mile away.

The world according to JayDeeBee:

Crossing the border illegally, hiding out and not paying taxes, putting a burden on our social infrastructure; not to mention the other criminal acts committed by many of these criminals = jaywalking..

Enforcing our laws = Nazi treatment of the jews..

GET SERIOUS.

[rhymnrzn]

I purpose we hold a rally where we distribute copies of the Santa Biblia/Holy Bible bi-lingual edition, where everyone gets to practice a foreign language AND get blessed by the Word of the Lord at the same time.

[jdb]

Hey, we keep catching eachother in mid edit. Truce on the speed post factor?

I see that you toned it down somewhat now, by saying that it's reminiscent of the "early stages of WWII."

An attempt to encourage you to tone it down and at the same time, better define the position.


"And who said anything about rounding them all up?


I asked if that was your stance.
You say it not's ...onward with the subject.


I say that they will go back through attrition once the dangling carrot of jobs, anchor babies, employment, and benefits are taken away.

I don't see that happening.

Want to answer the question about what you are going to do about the CONTINUED invasion?

Aside from trying to stay one step in front of the Coyote, and actually enforcing the penalty for crossing over, I haven't heard any new ideas at the border.

"BREAK OUR LAWS AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OUR SYSTEM."

I understand that people would rather live here and are willing to risk their lives getting across. Against that, being branded an "illegal" is small beans.

I think given the choice "they" would rather be a part of our system then taking advantage of it.
Which begs the question of, "Should they have the option?" Oh but were already addressing too many subjects here as it is.


It's trife that comes out of sympathizers like you that makes people hotheaded.

I don't think so, there's more to it then that.
Fess up. And for the record, I am not the sympathizer you paint here.


Better a hothead than a criminal sympathizer.

Again, it's your blood pressure.

[Double A]

Guest Workers: a worn-out idea

By John J. Sweeney and Pablo Alvarado, Special to Los Angeles Times
 
 

Corporate America has made an expanded guest-worker program the cornerstone of its preferred brand of immigration reform, and no wonder: It will assure a steady flow of cheap labor from essentially indentured workers too afraid of being deported to protest substandard wages, chiseled benefits and unsafe working conditions.

Such a system will create a disenfranchised underclass of workers. That is not only morally indefensible, it is economically nonsensical. We've had plenty of bad experiences with such shortsighted answers to a complicated problem.

The notorious bracero program all but enslaved immigrant agricultural and railroad workers in the years after World War II. Today we have H-2A and H-2B visa programs to remind us that "temporary" immigration employment models rest on a faulty foundation.

The H-2 programs bring in agricultural and other seasonal workers to pick crops, do construction and work in the seafood industry, among other jobs. Workers typically borrow large amounts of money to pay travel expenses, fees and sometimes bribes to recruiters. That means that before they even begin to work, they are indebted. They leave their families at home, and they are essentially "bound" to employers who can send them home on a whim and who do not have to prove a need to hire them in the first place.

According to a new study published by the Southern Poverty Law Center, it is not unusual for a Guatemalan worker to pay more than $2,500 in fees to obtain a seasonal guest-worker position, about a year's worth of income in Guatemala. And Thai workers have been known to pay as much as $10,000 for the chance to harvest crops in the orchards of the Pacific Northwest. Interest rates on the loans are sometimes as high as 20 percent a month. Homes and vehicles are required collateral. Handcuffed by their debt, the "guests" are forced to remain and work for employers even when their pay and working conditions are second-rate, hazardous or abusive. Hungry children inevitably checkmate protest.

Technically, these programs include some legal protections, but in reality, those protections exist mostly on paper. Government enforcement is almost nonexistent. Private attorneys refuse to take cases. And guest workers, especially the poorest, the least educated and those with the least English, end up with no choice but to put their heads down and toil, innocently undermining employment standards for all U.S. workers in the process.
 

This doesn't mean that there is no solution to the immigration crisis or no good way to deal with workers and families who will want to come -and who we will need to come -to the United States to work.

In 1997, the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform validated our belief that a "properly regulated system of permanent admissions serves the national interest" and warned that another temporary-worker program would be a "grievous mistake." This means that everyone who is admitted to work must immediately be on a track toward permanent residency or citizenship.

Yes, employers who can prove that they tried and failed to find U.S. workers should be able to hire foreign workers. But no, they shouldn't be able to bring them in under abusive conditions that have a negative effect on the wages and working conditions of other workers.

Yes, we should have caps set to limit the number of employment-based visas issued each year. But no, they should not be determined, as the H-2 quotas are now, by political compromise or industry lobbying. The number of employment-based visas should be set each year by the Department of Labor based on macro-economic indicators that establish the needs of particular industries.

Employers should not be allowed to recruit abroad, a practice that invites bribes, exorbitant fees and potential abuse. Instead, employers should be required to hire from applications filed by workers in their home countries through a computerized job bank.

Foreign workers should enjoy the same rights and protections as U.S. workers, including freedom to form unions and bargain for a better life. Labor laws must protect all workers, regardless of immigration status. If we leave undocumented workers without any real way to enforce labor laws, as our laws do now, we are feeding employers' hunger for more and more exploitable workers, relegating them to second-class status. That hurts all workers.

Scholars have long recognized that the genius of U.S. immigration policy throughout our history has been the opportunity afforded to immigrants for full membership in society. That is the solid foundation on which a morally and economically sound policy can be built, and it is the foundation we are working together to build.

Sweeney is president of the AFL-CIO. Alvarado is executive director of the National Day Laborer Organizing Network.

[jdb]

And btw, CROSSING the border and coming into this country illegally IS NOT similar to jaywalking. I see where you and the rest of your ilk are coming from a mile away.

The world according to JayDeeBee:

Crossing the border illegally, hiding out and not paying taxes, putting a burden on our social infrastructure; not to mention the other criminal acts committed by many of these criminals = jaywalking..

Enforcing our laws = Nazi treatment of the jews..

GET SERIOUS.

To counter your hotheaded stance that illegal aliens are akin to heinous villians, I use the other extreme of Jay-walking. Balance.
Both are criminal, no?

Your take/ spin on my opinon is inaccurate and doesn't help your position, give it up.

[Hometown]

According to the Tulsa World and their Oklahoma poll, Immigration is three times more important to Tulsans than it is to folks in Oklahoma City.  They opined that it might be the result of local politician John Sullivan's focus on immigration.  And I want to point out that we also have different news operations.

My question is why is the immigration issue more important to Tulsans that folks from the City?  OKC is only 90 some odd miles down the road.

[Conan71]

Beats me.  I guess we're just a bunch of redneck, xenophobic, racists up here in Tulsa.

Are you feeling okay today HT?  You didn't mention "hate" or "hateful" once in your post.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

According to the Tulsa World and their Oklahoma poll, Immigration is three times more important to Tulsans than it is to folks in Oklahoma City.  They opined that it might be the result of local politician John Sullivan's focus on immigration.  And I want to point out that we also have different news operations.

My question is why is the immigration issue more important to Tulsans that folks from the City?  OKC is only 90 some odd miles down the road.

My guess would be that most of us are smart enough to recognize a dangerous threat to the quality of life, rule of law and standard of living in our communities when we see one.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

According to the Tulsa World and their Oklahoma poll, Immigration is three times more important to Tulsans than it is to folks in Oklahoma City.  They opined that it might be the result of local politician John Sullivan's focus on immigration.  And I want to point out that we also have different news operations.

My question is why is the immigration issue more important to Tulsans that folks from the City?  OKC is only 90 some odd miles down the road.

My guess would be that most of us are smart enough to recognize a dangerous threat to the quality of life, rule of law and standard of living in our communities when we see one.

What ever happened to being a young, hateful white man?[]

[dinkleman23]

REMOVED

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown
My question is why is the immigration issue more important to Tulsans that folks from the City?  OKC is only 90 some odd miles down the road.

I dont know much about the Hispanic population in OKC, but perhaps it is because there is a large Hispanic Community in one location in Tulsa (East Tulsa) that are well organized.  They have rallies several times a year either downtown or at 21st and Garnett and always manage to keep them in check and draw media attention.  I have not seen news coverage of anything similar in OKC even at the capital building (perhaps one demonstration?).

Or perhaps there is a larger federal presence in OKC and illegal immigrants avoid the area?  Maybe there is more work and more of them in Tulsa?

Just ideas.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

Originally posted by jdb

Hey, we keep catching eachother in mid edit. Truce on the speed post factor?

I see that you toned it down somewhat now, by saying that it's reminiscent of the "early stages of WWII."

An attempt to encourage you to tone it down and at the same time, better define the position.

No, it's backpeddling on your part.

"And who said anything about rounding them all up?

I asked if that was your stance.
You say it not's ...onward with the subject.

Sure, move on because you don't have a point


I say that they will go back through attrition once the dangling carrot of jobs, anchor babies, employment, and benefits are taken away.

I don't see that happening.

So what if you don't see that happening? When I want to know how to stand up and wave a white flag to invaders, I'll be sure and ask the expert on a subject such as yourself.

Want to answer the question about what you are going to do about the CONTINUED invasion?

Aside from trying to stay one step in front of the Coyote, and actually enforcing the penalty for crossing over, I haven't heard any new ideas at the border.

Who needs new ideas. Just like the laws you and yours don't want enforced, we need to redouble our efforts at the border combined with penalizing employers, stopping the care wagons, and getting these illegal aliens back to where they belong.

"BREAK OUR LAWS AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OUR SYSTEM."

I understand that people would rather live here and are willing to risk their lives getting across. Against that, being branded an "illegal" is small beans.

You do say? Well, that's your opinion and I'm stating a fact of law, that they are here illegally.

I think given the choice "they" would rather be a part of our system then taking advantage of it.

Uh, no, the very fact that they sneak across the border, give birth to anchor babies, do not pay their share of taxes, etc., etc., etc., is descriptive of how they are taking advantage of our system.

Which begs the question of, "Should they have the option?" Oh but were already addressing too many subjects here as it is.

NO, the only option they should have is to go back and try to come here legally.


It's trife that comes out of sympathizers like you that makes people hotheaded.

I don't think so, there's more to it then that.
Fess up.
You fess up. You're the one that seems to wish to ignore the law.

And for the record, I am not the sympathizer you paint here.

And how do you describe all of the above, mr. jdb?