Inhofe and English Only

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Why discriminate against EVERY other language if forms, signs, etc. are in English & Spanish only?

If a city or company wants to cater to Spanish speakers, why would you want to legislate it out?  It's understandable IMO why a city would have signs in Spanish, or a company would have a Spanish language option.  What are your motives?  What offends you so much, that you feel it has to be legislated out?  And if an "official language" doesn't legislate it out, what's the point in supporting it?

[RLitterell]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

I don't necessarily "see the problem" with it being "official" either.  But I don't see what YOUR problem is, that requires English being made "official".

If nothing changes, why bother?  If you support it out of bigotry, that's a fair answer.  If you support it out of libertarianism, let's see if that holds water.  If you support it out of some kind of idea of punishment against corporations, ok, we can talk about that.

If there is no need for it, why would you support it?  What makes this a good idea?  Other than the rhetorical "press 1 for English" or "no 1040-greek" what's your case?

As far as I can tell, the best case is going to end up being "we don't like Spanish speaking people, we want to convert them to English speaking people.  An official language can be used as leverage."

The cost of doing business. As was mentioned in Conan71's post. The next step will be for every single minority that speaks another native tongue will be wanting to legislate forms and official documents be printed in their language.
Parents will require schools to buy text books printed in the langauge of their native tongue. Teachers, bankers, lawyers, doctors etc. will be required to learn another language so they can communicate with the minority. Think that is far fetched, think that some liberal minded politition will never suggest that type of legislation? They will, you can take that to the bank. At some point paper money will have to be printed in God know how many different languages.
If English is the official language all of the above can be dispensed with. If companies, doctors lawyers etc. want to learn another language that would be fine. I don't care as long as it's a choice not the rule.

[MichaelC]

So, you're whole point is you're afraid that at some point the US gov't might force Spanish upon businesses and gov'ts.  And this is a preemptive way to stop that from happening.

You're saying that the legislation would essentially do nothing, except to preempt this potential future legislation.

[RLitterell]

Not just Spanish and not at some point. Government agencies are already required to print documents in multiple languages.
And yes thats my point.

[South_Tulsan]

Spanish and English are the predominant languages in this area.

There's not going to be another minority that will have the leverage to get more signage changed.

Right-wing talk radio loves to use this point in their argument for 'English Only,' but it is a weak one.

[MichaelC]

And you don't believe that English as the "official language" would force cities and states to provide English only documents.

My concern about this, it's either A) useless in that it does virtually nothing and is a wedge issue.  In which case, pass it, I couldn't care less.  Or B) It's diabolical, meant as some kind of leverage to force Spanish speakers into English, and requires gov'ts not to assist Spanish speakers.

Seems to me, you could solve part of this problem if you solved the border issue.  The diabolical part, you can't really fix unless you can prove that "we want this because we don't want Spanish to ever be heard or seen in the USA", is untrue.

There are good reasons why it's talked about.  And there are good reasons why not even the GOP would think too seriously about it.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Why discriminate against EVERY other language if forms, signs, etc. are in English & Spanish only?

If a city or company wants to cater to Spanish speakers, why would you want to legislate it out?  It's understandable IMO why a city would have signs in Spanish, or a company would have a Spanish language option.  What are your motives?  What offends you so much, that you feel it has to be legislated out?  And if an "official language" doesn't legislate it out, what's the point in supporting it?

Michael, you seem to have some inherent dislike for me that muddles your comprehension of my posts to have some underlying context of hate, bigotry, xenophobia, and being some sort of rubber stamp right-winger.  Please quit casting such a critical eye on everything I post.  The only thing I'm offended by is your consistent mis-reads of my posts and trying to cram things between the lines which are not there.

The line you quoted from me doesn't even come close to registering with your remarks.  Where do I EVER say I'm offended? Please point this out.

I was not offended by the Spanish instructions on the IRS hotline, just answering to you that there is some accomodation at the IRS to the Hispanic community, no commentary one way or the other.  The part you failed to quote from me says "I understand there should be some accomodation for the predominant immigrant population in America".

From what I can research on the bill (the text has not been submitted to the LOC yet) it calls for English to be the "official language of government".  It does not ban other languages, but singles out one language for government (I assume this applies to Fed. level only and cities or states can do whatever they want with state and local gov't)to operate in.

It is estimated it will save taxpayers about $2 billion per year in costs.  It will also do away with bi-lingual ballots, which, IMO, we should not have in the first place since, by law, a condition of citizenship is to speak and read English.  Laws do allow an interpreter to be present in the voting booth.  According to a Zogby poll last year, 84% of all Americans favor English as the official language, 63% oppose bi-lingual ballots including Asians and Hispanics who were polled.

(Source http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/05-08-2007/0004583964&EDATE=TUE+May+08+2007,+06:20+PM)

My point, pure and simple, nothing more, nothing less is this:  if you favor one foreign language over any others, then the government can wind up in a position of having to accomodate ALL foreign languages on signage, official forms, and laws.  It would be a costly logistical and legal nightmare.

[RLitterell]

quote:Originally posted by South_Tulsan

Spanish and English are the predominant languages in this area.

There's not going to be another minority that will have the leverage to get more signage changed.

Right-wing talk radio loves to use this point in their argument for 'English Only,' but it is a weak one.

It's interesting that you changed your post to this from how I was intolerant of other people because I think the official language should be english.
Most folks never thought Hispanics would soon be the majority, the Muskogee nation never thought they would be force marched to Oklahoma, I never thought we would be an I do away from gay marriage. You think there will never be another minority with enough clout to change signage. wow!!! I'll bet the Catholic Church never thought that the Muslim religion would ever replace them as the largest religion in the world.

[rwarn17588]

What Michael C said.

And then, you have the state of New Mexico, which is officially bilingual. That's because Spanish-speaking peoples were there hundreds of years before the white man arrived.

Then you have Oklahoma, which had Indian tribes here before the white man arrived. They're more entitled to have their languages be "official"  because they were here first.

And RLitterell, if you want English to be the official language, it would behoove yourself to be fluent in it first. The proper spelling is "their lives," not "there lives," as you put it.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Why discriminate against EVERY other language if forms, signs, etc. are in English & Spanish only?

If a city or company wants to cater to Spanish speakers, why would you want to legislate it out?  It's understandable IMO why a city would have signs in Spanish, or a company would have a Spanish language option.  What are your motives?  What offends you so much, that you feel it has to be legislated out?  And if an "official language" doesn't legislate it out, what's the point in supporting it?

Michael

Personal jab aside, you're saying you subscribe to the "Domino Theory of Languages".  Accept one, you have to accept them all.

It's not hatred for a specific language, it's this gloom and doom concept of city signage in 185 languages.  Got it.

[South_Tulsan]

Sad, isn't it?

But that's history. 500 years from now, what will it matter? The U.S. will both an Hispanic and English nation.

What will you be doing in 500 years? I plan to be in heaven, where English probably isn't the official language. At least I'll be able to say I didn't try to run off people who weren't like me.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

What Michael C said.

And then, you have the state of New Mexico, which is officially bilingual. That's because Spanish-speaking peoples were there hundreds of years before the white man arrived.

Then you have Oklahoma, which had Indian tribes here before the white man arrived. They're more entitled to have their languages be "official"  because they were here first.

And RLitterell, if you want English to be the official language, it would behoove yourself to be fluent in it first. The proper spelling is "their lives," not "there lives," as you put it.

This is about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT doing business in English and declaring English as the official language of the U.S. GOVERNMENT.  Not states, not cities.  You guys are taking a run-away mentality with this that doesn't appear to be in the bill.  We will find out for certain when the GPO has the text of the bill printed.  If you are that concerned about it, I'm sure you can call or email Sen. Inhofe, or Rep. King.

[RLitterell]

quote:Originally posted by South_Tulsan

Sad, isn't it?

But that's history. 500 years from now, what will it matter? The U.S. will both an Hispanic and English nation.

What will you be doing in 500 years? I plan to be in heaven, where English probably isn't the official language. At least I'll be able to say I didn't try to run off people who weren't like me.

Who am I runing off, I never mentioned or suggested that anyone leave, Just learn English.

Where did you get your figure of 500 years? Most populace experts suggest 10-20 years and Hispanics will be the majority. Most of them being illegal.
Your arguement lacks merit since you didn't really bother to read the posts.

[iplaw]

Personal Remarks Removed

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Why discriminate against EVERY other language if forms, signs, etc. are in English & Spanish only?

If a city or company wants to cater to Spanish speakers, why would you want to legislate it out?  It's understandable IMO why a city would have signs in Spanish, or a company would have a Spanish language option.  What are your motives?  What offends you so much, that you feel it has to be legislated out?  And if an "official language" doesn't legislate it out, what's the point in supporting it?

Michael

Personal jab aside, you're saying you subscribe to the "Domino Theory of Languages".  Accept one, you have to accept them all.

It's not hatred for a specific language, it's this gloom and doom concept of city signage in 185 languages.  Got it.

Hello??? Michael???

I never said anything about city signage.  The only reference to a city would be my opinion that this does nothing to impact individual cities and states.

This is a Federal bill about the official language of the Federal Gov't.

Si comprende?