1957 Plymouth dig up

[Conan71]

I wasn't going to say anything about the tears but since that photo's been posted, the Plymouth cat's out of the bag.  It more or less resembles a tarp now.

All we could see of tears from the top were at the tips of the fins.  We talked about it after getting back to the office and figured the fin tears were caused by sediment on the deck lid as Breadburner said.

Yes, cosmoline is brown.  

Pure speculation: only basis being previous experience with cosmolined parts- with the bag compromised, cosmoline could do more harm than good if water gets under it.  

I think they will be able to make it presentable for tomorrow night, but I don't think it will be running which I believe was the intent for having Boyd Coddington here.  I hope I'm wrong but I don't think they will have enough time.

[cannon_fodder]

D'oh!

I saw in the original sets of pictures that the "vacuum seal" was broken, but thought that might be due to messing with it.  When I rig my boat for highway travel I know I have to pad the corners, come on 1950's - you created ICBM's and space travel, you're smarter than that!

The good news is, even with the tear directly at the point, there is definitely a panel there.  I would think a car sitting in water for 50 years would have holes rusted in the body.  Then again, if the water was stagnant the reaction would have slowed down as the iron level of the water rose (not a chemist, but seems plausible).

I hope not, but I'm starting to think we may have been just as well parking it in the Arkansas river.

[sauerkraut]

Aw it's all over, however that does not mean it sat in water for 50 years, we don't know when the leak started and any leak would of been slow. The first few years it must of been dry then the gunnite started to crack and leak no doubt. The objects in the car would also be ruined like the microfilm of the names. Here's what scared me, I looked at the 1957 picture of the car wraped and sitting in the vault before the sealing and the plastic wrap was smooth and straight back then, the 2007 picture shows the plastic wrap all wrinked almost as if water was sloshing around inside there, somehow that wrap got wrinkled.

[jiminy]

Is the micofilm and other stuff not in the time capsule?  Because the time capsule is not in the car.

[TulsaSooner]

quote:Originally posted by jiminy

Is the micofilm and other stuff not in the time capsule?  Because the time capsule is not in the car.

I think it's supposed to be in some kind of sealed (heh) steel container in the trunk isn't it?

[Conan71]

Sealed container is behind the trunk on the floor of the vault.  I hope that's where it was originally. [:O]

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by T-Town Now

The car just looks very dirty to me. What you can see where the cover is torn is the rear taillamp area. The lens itself is plastic, so it won't rust. The color is uniform, and rust isn't uniform. You would see rust mostly in the form of a scaly deposit and this is still smooth.

What is most encouraging to me is under the rear bumper you can see the rear valance and the bottom of the rear quarter panel. Two areas VERY prone to rust on these cars, and they are still there, which means the car is intact.

The floorboards may be rotted, but those can be replaced. Anyone who has restored an old Mustang knows this is done frequently.

I think the car is going to be in better shape than we think.

I agree T Town.  I was really sad on Wednesday, but the more pics I see and all, I think it is just a dirty car and is in much better shape than many people think!  My anxiety is now back up to the fever pitch it was on Tuesday, before the lid was opened!

That tear in the bag could very well have happened just yesterday when the car was lifted.  The weight of the material hanging down, its weakness after 50 years, and the sharp point of the tail fin could have opened it up when the car was lifted.  

I think we all are going to be very pleasantly surprised in about 8 hours!  I think it will look even better after they have proper time to really clean her up good and dry her out.

[T-Town Now]

In the pictures that show the covering on the car smooth, that is not the outside plastic bag, that is the cosmoline layer put on before the plastic bag. That is likely covered by years of soot and dirt right now.

The plastic bag was wrinkled and somewhat loose when the car was placed in the vault. An older man was interviewed on television who was at the 1957 event, and he said the plastic bag over the car looked the same back then as it does today, wrinkles and all. Of course, it wasn't torn back then, and I would have thought they would have taken precautions with sharp edges on the car to pad them somewhat, but they probably didn't consider that gravity would take its toll and tear the bag eventually.

The car may be covered with surface rust, which can be removed and a new coat of paint applied. This is not a difficult process as long as there aren't any holes to patch. So far, I've seen nothing that would indicate huge chunks of rusty metal are missing.

We'll know in a matter of hours what the whole story is. I'm going to try to keep a positive attitude that all is OK for the most part, and the car while not 100% pristine as everyone had hoped, will be an easy restoration back to new condition.

Another concern is the upholstery material. Apparently, it began to deteriorate quite rapidly in the early sixties. This was due mostly to sunlight, so it will be interesting to see what's left of the interior as well.

[Conan71]

If you look at the photo on the previous page of the lift yesterday, the bag is draping off the back of the car.  The top of the fins were dirty when we looked at it yesterday, this wasn't something which happened since Weds.  It is no longer sealed along the bottom and you can see sediment inside the bag.

The one good thing is, fresh oxygen would have been a minimum inside the vault.  Oxygen will accelerate corrosion with water.

They were talking to Coddington on the news this morning and he said the main concern is whether or not the engine has locked up from being in standing water.  All we can hope is that any crankcase vents and the air cleaner were all sealed and they sprayed preservative into the cylinders and crankcase.

We just need to hold our breath till 6:30 tonight.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by T-Town Now

Another concern is the upholstery material. Apparently, it began to deteriorate quite rapidly in the early sixties. This was due mostly to sunlight, so it will be interesting to see what's left of the interior as well.

Yes.  I have very high hopes for the sheet metal and structure.  The condition of the interior and the artifacts that were placed inside is the biggest mystery of all right now for me.

I assume the windows of the car were closed when it was entombed.  They should really sift through any dirt and debris left in the vault for momentos that may be lurking there.  And I hope they clean up the vault walls and floor and take close photos so we can see the names and writings that were etched in the gunnite and written on the walls.

[jof]

Hello from Germany,

being an enthusiast of vintage cars I am interestingly following the whole story. Hopefully it turns out to be not as bad as it seemed to when the water was discovered.

I want to make a little story out of it for a vintage car magazine over here. Very helpful would be a few pictures in a size that can be used for printing in a magazine (lets say jpg-pictures with at least 250kb, >500kB would be better). I am asking for pictures from the undigging, the first lift, and of course from what is going to happen tonight. Unfortunately the pictures I am able to take from the web are too small to print.

Maybe somebody also scanned in a few pictures from the burial in 1957 and is able to send them , too?

Any help is appreciated, please send pictures to my e-mail-address jof@gmx.li (please note the letters after the dot, it is "L" like left and "I" like indian). Thanks a lot!

What is the weather like? Over here in Germany at 5.00 PM (that is the actual time here now) it is raining!

Best regards

Jörg

[jiminy]

According to the Shelbyville article, the bottom of the bag is actually a material called Metalam.  It was laid down on the skid, and  the car was set on it.  The bag (a Kennedy Car Liner) was draped over, heat-sealed to the metalam, and air was sucked out through an opening.  I wonder why they did it that way, instead of using the Metalam for the whole thing.  I have to think there were sturdier materials back then to make the bag of.  Oh, well...

[Conan71]

Jorg, unfortunately, the photos I took yesterday are about pretty low res due to the cheap camera we use at work for posting equipment photos on the internet but you are welcome to try to work with them.  I can send you some on Monday.  I'll PM you with my email address.

Jiminy, there is a material in the outer bag we could see which had the appearance of aluminum foil to us.

[Steve]

From what I have read, 1957 was one of the wettest years on record for Tulsa and Oklahoma.  It rained nearly the entire week of the 1957 Tulsarama pageant and car burial.  Seems like history is repeating itself 50 years later!

[sauerkraut]

I don't think the rust will be that bad, much of the normal car rust is caused from road salt, and I'm from Michigan so I know how road salt eats up the metal. This vault would of had pure water and we don't know when the water entered. The bottom of the car may have alot of rust such as the brake drums, wheel  bearings and u-joints, front end and things like that. The transmission may also have water in it. The '57 Plymouth had a real nice dash board and an "oblog" horn ring. They did say the seats did not hold up well because Chrysler was in a rush to produce them to meet demand. My neighbor had a 1959 Plymouth Fury when I was a kid and his car got very severe rust, but that's from the Michigan roads in winter & the salt, My dad owned a 1958 Ford Fairlane 500 that car also rusted out badly. I read in the Tulsa newspaper a few weeks ago that many cars of the late 1950's had rust problems and they think it's due to the cheap imported steel that was used at the time to meet production demands, but sadly the Plymouth was one of the most rust prone vehicles they say.