1957 Plymouth dig up

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I just picked up the new Urban Tulsa at lunch.  (I had to go to Napoli's to pay for all the damage we did last Friday.  They've replaced all the window panels we broke).

Page 15, the new aquarium ad is very prophetic:

"See what's underground!"
And...see what's underwater"

Photo-shopped pic of a Belvedere with a shark driving it.

UTW

Who knew they were just advertising the vault and not the aquarium.

[sauerkraut]

This is so sad. Looks like the vault must of had a crack in the bottom because if the water filled it to the top it would of had to drain away somehow, most likely thru a cracks in the vault. They would of done better to check the car/vault every year after it was planted in the ground to be sure it was dry, it spoils the idea of a time capsule but at least you'd have a prize and something to dig out. The plastic bag could not of held back that water soaking in there, I guess it was sealed in a vacuum bag, but there's no way it could of stayed tight like that.[xx(]

[sauerkraut]

I was hoping so bad for a new 1957 mint car. The water would of ruined everything even the microfilm and the contents they put inside the car. When it was opened they said it had 3' of water inside the vault. That's bad. The sand and rust and dirt on top of the wrap seem to point to the vault lid was leaking thru the years, that looks like sand on the top of the plastic. The seats, the dashboard, all would be ruined. It's very sad.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Steve

Only the car and vault contents will be removed; the concrete vault will stay in the ground.  What I have read and heard has said the vault will remain in the ground and be backfilled with dirt and relandscaped like nothing was ever there.

Some encouraging trivia:  The concrete vault for the car was built by Max True's "True Gunn-All Corp." in Tulsa.  In early 1956, the Max True company constructed my neighborhood swimming pool at 4941 E 26 St, Tulsa's first private neighborhood subdivision (Lortondale) pool.  Except for pumps, filters, some exterior concrete decking replacement and annual painting of the pool walls & interior, our pool is exactly the same as in 1956, still open for swimming and now in its 52nd consecutive summer season.  Speaks pretty well for the Max True company and their construction quality, so I would say chances are pretty good the car vault has held up and remained water-tight.

I understand that Mr. True is now 93 years young, and he will be in the viewing stands on Friday when the car is raised from the ground.  If the car is still in half-way decent shape, we have Mr. True to largely thank for that.

Steve,

Maybe they should put a pump set and filter on the vault and turn it into a pool for downtowners. []

Yea, a big hot tub for the county courthouse.

I was SO disappointed when I heard the news this morning, I heard the first of it here, and then viewed the photos posted here and at the links.  Being a lifetime Tulsan and turning 50 this year, I have known about this car and anticipated this day for so long.  What a let down.

But all is not completely lost.  From the looks of the photos, you can still see the outline of the structure of the 1957 Plymouth.  Looks to me that the engine compartment hood and front end are all intact; possibly the roof and trunk lid have disintegrated.  You can still see the tail fins.  I don't know how they are going to remove this from the ground without destroying what remains.  Best of luck to them.

Hopefully the time capsule and most artifacts have survived, but doesn't seem likely.  I really hope the microfilm with the contest entries can be salvaged.  I am still dying to know if my parents entered the "win a car" contest and what their population prediction was.

[Conan71]

Well, if you watch the Discovery Channel or TLC very much then you've seen them raise airplanes and other vehicles from salt and fresh water over the years.

I managed to get some tix for the unveiling Friday night through a vendor of ours.  Wish I could be a fly on the wall when Boyd Coddington says: "You want me to make this heap run??!!??"

Hopefully it's still pristine under the wrapping, but that "priceless" price tag sounds like it's beginning to drop.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Well, if you watch the Discovery Channel or TLC very much then you've seen them raise airplanes and other vehicles from salt and fresh water over the years.

Yes, I know they have restored cars and planes that were not much more than air and rust.  Just looking at today's photos, you can definately tell there is a car in there under that dirty tarp.  If someone with deep pockets has the will, they can probably restore Tulsa's Belvedere.

I felt sick about it when I first heard the news; I can imagine how the workmen and officials at the site must have felt.  I hear Sharon King-Davis actually cried.  I would have too.  I saw her interviewed on KOTV 6 noon news today, and she said they are still going to go on with the plans, raise the remains, and put it on display this Friday evening at the convention center.  

[MichaelC]

Here's the KOTV story.

quote:TULSA, Okla. (AP) _ Workers unearthing the 1957 Plymouth Belvedere buried under the city's courthouse lawn were dealt an early setback Wednesday, as several feet of water were found in the concrete vault supposedly strong enough to withstand a nuclear attack.

The two-door hardtop, buried in 1957 to celebrate Oklahoma's 50 years of statehood, is set to be lifted out of the 12-foot-by-20-foot time capsule Friday morning to commemorate the state's centennial year. As many as 50,000 people from all over the world are expected at the event, and more than 260 media credentials have been handed out to reporters from New York to New Zealand.

But news of the standing water was crushing to event organizers. As heavy rain fell at the site, the Belvedere's fate remained unknown.

The vault was briefly opened Wednesday so hazardous materials crews could inspect the 10 gallons of gasoline and motor oil cans that had been placed in the time capsule in case internal combustion engines became obsolete by 2007.

Excavators found water halfway up on the car's fenders and more evidence water could have been to the top of the vault at one point, said Art Couch, who is heading up the unearthing project.

``I don't know how bad it is, but it's not good,'' Couch said. ``We were hoping it would be dry in there.''

Some water was pumped out, and the city was to bring in a truck to remove the last foot or so.

``The concrete must not have been as good as we hoped it was,'' Couch said. ``It had some failures over the years; the concrete didn't hold.''

The Belvedere was wrapped in a protective plastic material before it was buried, but it was unknown how it held up against the elements.

``Plymouths were very prone to rust to begin with,'' said Jim Benjaminson, a car collector from North Dakota who has written several books on Plymouths. ``Depending on this bag, if that car has sat in water for 50 years, I don't hold much hope for it.''

Benjaminson, who plans to be at Friday's unearthing, said he read a recent article that the plastic used to cover the Belvedere was supposed to protect materials ``for 1,200 years'' from rust.

``I guess we're going to see if that claim is true,'' he said.

Organizers say this just creates that much more mystery around the car's unveiling. News On 6 anchor Terry Hood hosts our live special Friday evening at 7 o'clock. The unveiling can also be seen live, streaming on the internet at kotv.com.

[sgrizzle]

Sharon King Davis said there are 3 layers of protection still on the car which could still be intact.

[MichaelC]

It'll disappointing if it turns out to be worthy of recycling only (maybe recyclemichael will be elated, but not me).  I'm still looking forward to seeing it.  

Hopefully, whoever wins the thing will give it away, perhaps as a fixture for the Cyrus Avery Plaza.

[sauerkraut]

It may of also been a good idea if they would have put some kind of pump system inside the vault in 1957, so when the water got above the steel pallet the pump would kick on, thus water could never get above a certain level. The only hope now is the plastic held. If they had 3 layers of that plastic there's hope, it was sealed in a vacuum wrap, but if that plastic had any little tear it's all over. it looks to me like the water entered from above since sand and water are on top of the car's plastic wrap. At one time it must have been full to the brim and drained out thru cracks in the vault's floor.

[kevinc]

I have been paying attention to this for only 6 months now and I do not want to be negative in any way. I am still excited about the car. The shape I see in all of those pictures is the perfect shape of the car. I saw a video with the water all the way to the top of the tail fins of the car, it showed the water being pumped out. The water was clear. If that car was a pile of rust, The water would not have looked like that and I do not think they would have pumped down the street like it showed. I am not saying the car will be perfect, but I think it is going to be o.k.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Sharon King Davis said there are 3 layers of protection still on the car which could still be intact.

I saw her say that too, and it is obvious from the photos that there are still body panels intact, and as it sits right now, it is still a recognizable 1957 Plymouth.  But how in the world are they going to lift and remove this without doing any further damage to it?  I can't wait to see what is under that tarp.  Rusted out shell or not, I bet we can still see the Plymouth and Belvedere badging on the old gal!

[cannon_fodder]

Unfortunately Kevin, we had enough rain in the last few days to fill that vault with 3' - so that water would still be clear.

Perhaps for our next time:

So, car+grease/cosmo+spray foam sealant+ shrink plastic wrap + pressurize with neutral gas + sturdier lose plastic wrap + more gas + steel girders + reinforced concrete vault inside water proofed + sealed top that extends 2 feet over on all sides that is waterproofed + more gas in the vault + seal the outside + rubberize it + make sure the vault is at the TOP of a hill instead of at the bottom of one (downhill from the BOA tower to City Hall).

Or, perhaps cooler yet, seal the car on an used floor of some building and brick it in.  Would solve the rust issues - now just keep the mice out (no food + sealed with brick, should be ok).

Bah, still holding out hope.  But a set back to be sure.  Wonder if it will hurt the turnout?

[MichaelC]

The Prowler is in a pressurized aluminum vault.

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0607/431137.html

[kevinc]

I know it is a long shot, but I just want to grasp at anything to keep hopes up. I just feel bad for those of you, many their entire lives, who have been waiting a long time to see what is in there. This will not keep me from attending the unveiling. It will be a nice piece of history, regardless of the outcome.