Carter blasts Bush over Iraq war

[mr.jaynes]

I must, however, say that simply because these governments were just as committed to halting the spread of Soviet influence, we must in no way confuse that with being committed to "freedom" and "liberty," and any other noble terms that eventually become reduced to little more than buzzwords. Simply put, there has always been a viable alternative to Soviet-Marxist ideologies taking root in the third world: it's called Democracy, and rather than back various thieves and butchers, it's painfully clear that no effort seemed to be made to seek out those who best exemplified this ideal.

I was still in my public school days when the Iran-Contra scandal came about. I can still remember Reagan's words of solidarity and support for the Contras, calling them the "Moral equivalent to our Founding Fathers," and "I am a Contra", and then I began to see just what the Contras were capable of, including (but not limited to) deliberate war against the populace, and drug trafficking. I saw people like Oliver North and his public persona, carefully cultivated, as if to minimize what he'd done in the effort to supply the Contras, and yes, even Fawn Hall, in effect rationalizing various perfidies.

What they'd failed to realize was that the Contras had little support in Nicaragua or even in the US, that the government of Nicaragua was legitimately elected, and I'm still trying to figure out just how the Contras best fulfilled any US objective other than being a terrorist organization that happened to be against the Sandinista government. Obviously, a renegade action on the part of the NSC and any other Federal agency that had no popular support at home or abroad.

But Conan, that was a good link you posted, and it was good reading, and I do mean that. It fascinates me insofar as the roles that other players such as Dulles and Kissinger had in shaping our policies concerning other nations. I do find it interesting that Kissinger has yet to be brought to account for some of these things.

[Conan71]

History has probably been kinder to Kissinger than what is deserved.

Corruption is a way of life in government and power.  Other than the most idealistic of American voters, we all know deep down we are voting for who we think is "least" corrupt when we go to the polls.  

I sat down with Representative Lance Cargill, who is the present speaker of the house in the Oklahoma legislature on some legislative initiatives when he was toward the end of his first term in office (or early in his second term, can't remember which).  I was doing some volunteer lobbying for an NPO.  The young man I saw was idealistic, clean as a whistle, no political dirt under his fingernails, and seemed unaffected by politics as usual in Oklahoma City.

Fast-forward four or five years, and the word around the Capital is that he is a "pay-to-play" politician whose first priority is working to build up PAC money in exchange for political favors.  IOW- either I mis-read him initially, or the system finally got to him.

We can scratch our heads over odd bedfellows we've supported over the years in Central America and other countries, but when basically all the options for leadership are corrupt, you wind up supporting and sustaining the one who will provide the best alliance for business, security, and other American interests.

I'm not saying it's right, it's just how it works especially when corruption is more a way of life in many of these countries than it is here.

"Liberty" and "freedom" are two marketing phrases frequently repeated over the years to justify questionable foreign policy.  They are deeply rooted in the American psyche since that is what our DOI and Constitution were written around.

As mentioned before, you can only count the death toll when you support one faction over another.  No one can ever quantify lives saved unless you are talking about a sinking ship, burning building, or crashed airliner.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

History has probably been kinder to Kissinger than what is deserved.

Absolutely. And while I've always known that life ain't always fair, I always wondered just how he has been able to evade any accountability and essentially remain above the law as he has.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by teddy jack eddy

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Too bad all your posts don't look just like this one does.

[mr.jaynes]

The facts speak for themselves concerning the dirty work of Kissinger's State Department, and he really hasn't been called to account for it. I refer you to examine his policies referring to Vietnam, Cyprus, Cambodia, Chile, East Pakistan, Argentina, East Timor, and a little thing called Operation Condor.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by teddy jack eddy

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