hey mayor, you got my vote & $- where's the beef?

[brunoflipper]

seriously, where is it?
what the hell are we doing here?
where is the grand plan?
where is the future?

i know the comp plan is out there but c'mon...
this is all starting to look like status quo.

okc is on to maps3, while we've got what? community/county pet projects via v2025, a dead downtown and crumbling infrastructure...

for crying out loud, do something!

before you flame me, i'm just sick and tired of waiting and starting to fear that we are not going to ever catch up... this sucks.

[Conan71]

The deer-in-the-headlights look after being confronted about voting twice in the same election was all I needed to know.  I would have voted for her up to that point.  I also felt her keeping the "single mother" thing up in her campaigning whilst ignoring she is married to one of Tulsa's wealthiest men was another turn-off.  

Quite frankly, her management style has been no surprise to me.

It sucked with the only alternative being Mayor Bill.

[TheArtist]

I know that things take a long time to work through the system in government.  So I am still giving the Mayor some leeway.  I figure we should see the start of things during the second year of her term.

My main hopes have been for some development along the river across from downtown. Its amazing how convoluted a process it is just to get the dam thing figured out. (pardon the pun) They have to do an environmental impact study that will take a year, you need funds for that. Then the type and height of dam will have to be decided upon.  Then if federal funds do not come through, which appears they wont, we will have to set up a vote for some type of funding for the dam and hardening of the shoreline. That will take time too. No matter how hard any mayor pushes, the process doesn't seem like it can be rushed all that much. Perhaps in 4 or 5 years at best we will see a dam and shoreline hardening so that we can really get the ball rolling on development.

However in the second year we should see some progress on paper for many things.  I would like to see some type of "2025 part deux" talked about.  River development goals, light rail, and other things could be on that vote. The figures are starting to be laid out for how much these things will cost.  We need to start thinking about when we can have a vote so that we can have a time table to work towards and a list of items to be voted on.  

The comprehensive plan is going to take a while to get underway and I think we should be considering action on some obvious "wants" even before it is completed.  We shouldnt wait for the comprehensive plan to be completed. The comprehensive plan is not something we are going to vote on to fund like a maps or 2025 project. All the focus shouldn't shift to the comprehensive plan leaving behind those items we already have been pushing for. The comprehensive plan isnt going to suprise us with the revelation that people want something done with the river, schools, light rail, etc. Surely we can do 2 things at once.

Perhaps too if there were major issues of concern that people are wondering about progress on.  There could be a list of steps that have to be taken for that subject to be completed and monthly updates on where in the process we currently were.  That way people wouldn't just hear about something that was supposed to be done then not hear about it and not know if anything at all was being done.  Just seeing the process laid out step by step and knowing progress was being made would be a big help and would answer a lot of questions.

[daddys little squirt]

Maybe she's a vegan.

Seriously, I can appreciate and share your impatience, but one year with all the problems we've grown over the last 30 isn't much time. Especially when she faces entrenched hatred from opponents who smell a liberal at every turn. Forced to operate among the old cops, the old guard, the luddites, the anti-arena, anti-river, anti-anythings, the county and the county haters she doesn't have much wriggle room. And my gawd, people here felt comfortable criticizing her alleged non-photogenic qualities at length rather than her substance!? Well at least she's not a know it all UT writer/politician/columnist/engineer/radio co-host who panders to our worst instincts. Stale baits seem to attract flies.

High expectations for a mere business lawyer. Mostly I believe that she simply is more of a functional business person than a visionary. Creative people rarely lead and business leaders are rarely creative.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by daddys little squirt

Maybe she's a vegan.

Seriously, I can appreciate and share your impatience, but one year with all the problems we've grown over the last 30 isn't much time. Especially when she faces entrenched hatred from opponents who smell a liberal at every turn. Forced to operate among the old cops, the old guard, the luddites, the anti-arena, anti-river, anti-anythings, the county and the county haters she doesn't have much wriggle room. And my gawd, people here felt comfortable criticizing her alleged non-photogenic qualities at length rather than her substance!? Well at least she's not a know it all UT writer/politician/columnist/engineer/radio co-host who panders to our worst instincts. Stale baits seem to attract flies.

High expectations for a mere business lawyer. Mostly I believe that she simply is more of a functional business person than a visionary. Creative people rarely lead and business leaders are rarely creative.

Nice comment, DLS...welcome.  I tend to agree with you.  In my opinion, she's doing some good.  But Tulsa is a financial wreck on the revenue side, and there is only so much one mayor can do about it.  The State is an impediment to solutions and it will take regional cooperation to overcome that.  Nevertheless, and unlike her predecessor, she is trying.  I can't imagine we'd be better off is Mr. Bates had had his way and LaFortune was still mayor.

For instance, she tried to regionalize and stabilize the fire department and the idea was flat out rejected by the Oklahoma legislature.  Until the Tulsa region, i.e., the City, County, and surrounding communities start acting like a region, this area is going to struggle.  

FYI, acting like a region means, start cooperating and pooling resources, stop fighting over table scraps, and start holding our legislator's accountable for making sure that this 1/3 of the State gets its due.  

That's right, the Tulsa region pays a third of the bills in this state and we don't get back our third...not nearly.  That money is used disproportionately to subsidize failing rural economies and the State Capitol.  We'll never shed this millstone unless we form a bloc and demand change.

[Hometown]

You Republicans aren't going to be happy with anything Taylor does, but it looks to me like she is a centrist that governs by consensus and leads by example.  I'm unhappy with her interest in moving City Hall, but hey, She's done a lot of things right, like standing up to the TPD.  Go Taylor!

[Conan71]

I have a problem with her lack of transparency, use of private attorneys so that things will remain opaque to the public, etc.  What DID happen to public forums which were going to be a part of her reign?

FWIW, if she were a Republican and were running it the exact same way, I would still say the same thing, and still would not have voted for her for reasons previously mentioned.  Hers is not a management style that agrees with me.  There is a certain trust she lacks in my eyes.

[Wilbur]

I will admit up front that anybody who replaced Bill LaFortune can hardly do any worse (lets hope).  And when you follow someone like LaForture, you should look great to the electorate.  LaFortune was way too hands off.  Unfortunately, the opposite is true of our current Mayor.  She is a horrible micro-manager.

That being said:

quote: Nice comment, DLS...welcome. I tend to agree with you. In my opinion, she's doing some good. But Tulsa is a financial wreck on the revenue side, and there is only so much one mayor can do about it. The State is an impediment to solutions and it will take regional cooperation to overcome that. Nevertheless, and unlike her predecessor, she is trying. I can't imagine we'd be better off is Mr. Bates had had his way and LaFortune was still mayor.

I can only take some much talk of the City being in a "financial wreck."  Remember, Tulsa is working on it's largest budget in City history.  It only boils down to how you prioritize spending.

quote: For instance, she tried to regionalize and stabilize the fire department and the idea was flat out rejected by the Oklahoma legislature. Until the Tulsa region, i.e., the City, County, and surrounding communities start acting like a region, this area is going to struggle.

Now I may be wrong, but I don't believe there was any talk of "regionalizing" the Tulsa Fire Department, nor am I aware of any "stabilization" effort needed.  She wanted a tax increase, pure and simply.  That way she could redirect current fire department money someplace else.

quote: I know that things take a long time to work through the system in government. So I am still giving the Mayor some leeway. I figure we should see the start of things during the second year of her term.  

I agree!  Unfortunately, government does not move very fast.  I've been a government employee my entire adult life and nothing ever happens very fast.  While many people don't like the term "ureaucracy ", it does keep things fair for everyone, but it is terribly slow.

quote: However in the second year we should see some progress on paper for many things. I would like to see some type of "2025 part deux" talked about. River development goals, light rail, and other things could be on that vote. The figures are starting to be laid out for how much these things will cost. We need to start thinking about when we can have a vote so that we can have a time table to work towards and a list of items to be voted on.

Do you mean like a vote on another Vision 2050 or something?  I suggest we wait.  I served on a non-profit board prior to 2025 implementation.  The City was already taking proposals from groups (our board was one of them) for left over 2025 money prior to it starting its 13 year collection.  I would rather support something along the lines of how are we going to spend the overage that WILL be collected.

And no more River study.  We have studied the crap out of that place.  If we can't do it after 25 years of study, go someplace else.  The only prosperity happening with the River are people who study the river.

quote: I have a problem with her lack of transparency, use of private attorneys so that things will remain opaque to the public, etc. What DID happen to public forums which were going to be a part of her reign?

You aren't alone, brother!

quote: You Republicans aren't going to be happy with anything Taylor does, but it looks to me like she is a centrist that governs by consensus and leads by example. I'm unhappy with her interest in moving City Hall, but hey, She's done a lot of things right, like standing up to the TPD. Go Taylor!

"Governs by consensus" only as long as the consensus agrees with her.  It is more like leading with an iron fist.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

seriously, where is it?
what the hell are we doing here?
where is the grand plan?
where is the future?

i know the comp plan is out there but c'mon...
this is all starting to look like status quo.

okc is on to maps3, while we've got what? community/county pet projects via v2025, a dead downtown and crumbling infrastructure...

for crying out loud, do something!

before you flame me, i'm just sick and tired of waiting and starting to fear that we are not going to ever catch up... this sucks.

Bruno, I couldn't agree with you more.. There seems to be no such thing as fast track in Tulsa.

One thing I see lacking in Tulsa is the "partnerships in the private sector" that should be happening to propel Tulsa forward..

Look at this Board as an example. We have one of the most important topics being "tailpipes on motorcycles and the noise they create"...

We need desperately as we did prior to Kanbar some people to put their wallets where their mouths are... An example..

People want to see things happen Downtown yet I do not see pools of venture capital forming to make a private investment..

And yes.... Global and the other fellows such as Williams, that is the front guy for big blue, are "venturing" ...

The result being we are on the sidelines waiting for the "Tax Money" to finance nirvana...
and complaining endlessly that the City has not done enough..

To me... and this is just me....

Kinda beginning to sound like a socialist state wondering why the bread line is so long..

Look no further than this thread... The question you pose is in regards to "the grand plan and development... the slow growth" immediately you have everyone and their cousin jumping in to question why "Big Brother or Sister" ,as the case may be, isn't doing more..

I challenge every member of Tulsa Now to take a look at what they have contributed in the way of action to "Make It Happen"........!?

That is other than become full time development and political consultants on this Board.

[Conan71]

Rico,

Kaiser is a good example of private/public involvement with his gift for the river.

Warren Foundation, et. al. (The Channels) is a poor example.

We need more Kaisers.

[daddys little squirt]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

seriously, where is it?
what the hell are we doing here?
where is the grand plan?
where is the future?

i know the comp plan is out there but c'mon...
this is all starting to look like status quo.

okc is on to maps3, while we've got what? community/county pet projects via v2025, a dead downtown and crumbling infrastructure...

for crying out loud, do something!

before you flame me, i'm just sick and tired of waiting and starting to fear that we are not going to ever catch up... this sucks.

Bruno, I couldn't agree with you more.. There seems to be no such thing as fast track in Tulsa.

One thing I see lacking in Tulsa is the "partnerships in the private sector" that should be happening to propel Tulsa forward..

Look at this Board as an example. We have one of the most important topics being "tailpipes on motorcycles and the noise they create"...

We need desperately as we did prior to Kanbar some people to put their wallets where their mouths are... An example..

People want to see things happen Downtown yet I do not see pools of venture capital forming to make a private investment..

And yes.... Global and the other fellows such as Williams, that is the front guy for big blue, are "venturing" ...

The result being we are on the sidelines waiting for the "Tax Money" to finance nirvana...
and complaining endlessly that the City has not done enough..

To me... and this is just me....

Kinda beginning to sound like a socialist state wondering why the bread line is so long..

Look no further than this thread... The question you pose is in regards to "the grand plan and development... the slow growth" immediately you have everyone and their cousin jumping in to question why "Big Brother or Sister" ,as the case may be, isn't doing more..

I challenge every member of Tulsa Now to take a look at what they have contributed in the way of action to "Make It Happen"........!?

That is other than become full time development and political consultants on this Board.

I agree with that sir. Lots of blowhard consulting and serious critiquing around here. "Little less talk and a lot more action..." is good advice.

Odd that a city that has been described as the last bastion of capitalism should have such difficulty recognizing startup potential in areas outside of real estate, restaurants and oil. Lots of navel contemplating and political activism but little of that oil money lubricating city growth. Seems like its always some politicians fault too. Better get some bad pics and get the P-Shop working. That's helpful.

Lots of fat, contented cows around here and you know what happens to cows eventually. Sorry for the nattering negativity. Life is good, life is good, life is good.[]

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

I can only take some much talk of the City being in a "financial wreck."  Remember, Tulsa is working on it's largest budget in City history.  It only boils down to how you prioritize spending.

You are kidding, right?  To say that Tulsa has its "largest budget in City history" is either naive or misleading.  


As you can see from Councilor Martinson's report, "Municipal Revenues and Fiscal Constraints", March 2008, the city's inflation adjusted budget is exactly where it was 10 years ago.

Note that certain personnel costs have outpaced inflation, e.g., health insurance, public safety salaries, etc.

I'm not saying that you guys don't deserve raises, or that the need for additional officers wasn't there...I'm only noting that the revenue to keep pace with this growth is simply not there.

quote:Now I may be wrong, but I don't believe there was any talk of "regionalizing" the Tulsa Fire Department, nor am I aware of any "stabilization" effort needed.  She wanted a tax increase, pure and simply.  That way she could redirect current fire department money someplace else.

She proposed the formation of a fire district to be funded by property tax.  It's essentially the same structure as a the City/County Library System and Health Dept.  At no point did she say she wanted to raise taxes...she simply wanted to shift the burden onto a more stable, and steadily growing revenue source, i.e. property tax.  Over time, as the district matures and gains value, the district fire department could keep pace.  The State legislature said no, not because they thought it would cost Tulsans more, but because granting cities the ability to form fire districts would take away power from counties, and in all but about 2 of our 77 counties, the county government reigns supreme.  It's a crooked deal.

[RecycleMichael]

Isn't that amazing?

75 of 77 counties can fund fire departments this way, but the two urban counties can't.

Rural Oklahoma politics is what is hurting Oklahoma.

[Aa5drvr]

When All Is Said And Done......

More Is Said Than Done.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Rico,

Kaiser is a good example of private/public involvement with his gift for the river.

Warren Foundation, et. al. (The Channels) is a poor example.

We need more Kaisers.

I respectfully disagree with you sir...

We need many Kaiser's on a much smaller scale..

Partnerships, Co Operative investments, groups of individuals that have only so much money to invest.... but have Great ideas.

Take twenty people with a business plan.. each has say !0K.. Venture capital..
Just an example but you can see the possibilities.

Someone on another thread faulted ypTulsa and TYpros for having drinks a lot of talk and no action...

Tulsa Now could be a catalyst for the formation of many limited partnership investments...Not so long ago the membership on this forum was below 400 people. Last I looked it was approaching 1600. (and yes that is subtracting 10 or so in the event Davazz has been cloned).

Maybe you invest 10K and only get back 10.5K... But you have been a part of building what you feel belongs here.

Big Brother i.e. Kaiser, Warren, Zarrow, Siegfried.. Are not busy making plans to spend all their money to benefit individuals that do not have the "moxie" to get off their behinds and take a chance on things......