City of Millionaires

[shadows]

Tulsa, the city of millionaires.  Tulsa with a republic form of government where an aging population, by the devaluation of the currency robs them of their value of the saving for the twilight years.  Now the Civic Center that was consolidated and assembled for their convenience as to accessibility is being dismantled.  The city hall, a little over a half century old [ other governments built governments building that have endured centuries] now is declared a total disaster.   The city is to circumvent a vote of the people and have an authority issue revenue bond, that places a lien on future ownership of income and property of the citizens of Tulsa.

The  bright side is we will buy a millionaire dream of a archetypal monstrosity of a past attempt to showoff, with a bar on each floor, in a congested  traffic area with less accessibility to the citizens who must depend on their private cars for transportation.  There is a shortage of parking but the citizen can find parking where they can reach city hall by walking 2 or 3 blocks.   Some citizens may not be able to walk that distance to the new city hall.

The city is to spend up to the total of a hundred million dollars [ includes interest on revenue bonds issued by the authority] to save fifteen million over the next ten years.  Some are much better at math than those citizens that are not given the total figures.

In this world of terrorism experts are saying decentralize government functions as to centralize them only make a better target.

It is time to have the employees of the city that work in the new proposed city hall to have reserved parking 2 or 3 blo0cks away in the outboard parking areas proposed so the citizens and those who lease unneeded office space, in the proposed new city hall will have parking without having to make long walk to the offices they need to do business with.  Remember the city has an aging population, who's productive  years are past and further liens on the devaluing of their exiting savings will become just another burden.

It is time for the citizens to stand up and be counted and have a vote on any proposition as large as this one.
 
Where do you stand?  

Should you, under a republic form of government let your councilor know how you feel?  

Or mayor?

[TheArtist]

"...by the devaluation of the currency robs them of their value of the saving for the twilight years."


I got one word for ya...Diversification. Ones investment strategy should not rely entirely on currency.  

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/072303.asp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Comparison_of_three_stock_indices_after_1975.svg

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by shadows


Should you, under a republic form of government let your councilor know how you feel?  

Or mayor?

Niether, Shads.  Remember that in a Republic the rule of the gubmint is supreme, and the role of elected officials is to protect the Bureacracy - the uncivil servants - against the People.

However, given the success of stopthechop.net, I would say let Lady Kathy in on your concerns.

[rhymnrzn]

Always did dream of it to be like a Solomon's porch away from Solomon's porch........with alot of people content (and able) enough to come more often.

[shadows]

TheArtist:
---------------------------------
Your point is well made for the now generation but I and others are of the great depression teenager generation where the purchase of stocks were made on margin.   When the margin declined then also the investment market also failed.   We went off the gold standard recalling the gold backed currency.   Then we removed the silver certificates replacing them with promise to pay currency  

What we are doing, using the revenue bonding system, which is a shadowy procedure where we anticipate the reclining sales taxes in ratio to the devaluing of the currency as the guideline to further indebting the declining population of the city.   The 2025 proposition is the now generation's answer to the now generation buying on the anticipated margin.   Major chains stores are establishing in the suburbs to serve the exiting Tulsa work force, reducing the sales taxes needed for the purchase of more city property on this margin.  

The twenty dollar gold coin of the 1930's is now available to purchase with our devalued, promise to pay currency.  The twenty dollar coin can now be purchased with $700 dollars of the  devalued currency.  

In Tulsa we do not speak of dollars but of millions where we are now a city of millionaires making the rules for the retirees, on limited incomes, who are children of the great depression.    

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by shadows


It is time for the citizens to stand up and be counted and have a vote on any proposition as large as this one.
 
Where do you stand?  

Didn't you once say you lived in an unincorporated area of Broken Arrow?

[cannon_fodder]

Shadows, please stop trying to talk about any issue that is economic.  It hurts my brain to try and figure out your thought process.

Apparently you think we should be the only gold standard currency in the world.  With the USD pegged at 1/400th an ounce of gold.  You are ignoring some MAJOR disadvantages to this:

1) It limits the growth of your economy to the volume of gold your government can buy. Unfortunately, there is not enough gold in the world to guarantee to the US economy.  There isnt even enough printed money in the world to do that.  So we would have to shrink our economy 10 fold and take 9/10ths of the money from those poor retirees in order to accomplish your goal.

2) Gold is not a stable currency. As a commodity the market price of gold fluctuates wildly as new uses, mining techniques, and formations are found.  Several large conglomerates are able to manipulate the price, as are governmental reserves, treasure hunters (found 500mil just a few weeks ago) and industrial chemists.  Spain's gold based economy was destroyed by the introduction of conquered gold from the America's due to rampant inflation.  

3) Fools investment.  Today a $20 gold coin is worth $700 - the same invested in the stock market would be worth around $3,000 (pretending you were never issued dividends, so in reality it would be much more).  So you can take your gold and put it in a hole in the ground and I will keep my floating investment based currency and buy your shiny little coin for a wall decoration.

4) The children of the great depression are the adults of the BOOM in the 1950's. Poor, poor them.  Alive and working during one of the greatest period of economic growth in the history of the world.

5) People invested in the market on margin at their own discretion.  It was an exercise of freedom - to do as they please.  They took a chance, and they lost.  Today people still take those risks and lose.  So what?  Should I feel sorry for someone who makes a risky investment hoping to get rich quick and loses?  No, I regret that it happened but oh-well.  I've had risky ventures payoff and I've had them fail.

Your basic logic:

Because the federal government floated our currency in the 1920's we should not allow our city hall to be moved in 2008.

Not even worth discussing the merits of that argument.

[RecycleMichael]

I think shadows reminds me of the old miner guy Gabbie Johnson in the movie "Blazing Saddles".

"Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, but it expressed a courage that is little seen in this day and age."

[TheArtist]

I don't care what generation you are from.  Diversificataion has always been the key to successful investment. A percentage should go into the market, world markets, in bonds, in precious metals, cash, world currencies, property, etc.  Lumping everything into only one or two of those is a recipe for a lifetime of struggle. Every generation knows that.

If those major chain stores in the suburbs are making money, then it sounds to me like you might want to check out their stocks.  If there are that many millionaires in town I would look at what businesses they own and buy stock in those types. When you work for someone you are supposed to be making "them" money. You need to be "them". The point of having money saved in retirement is having that money work for you.   Even if nobody in or around Tulsa was "making money" someone in the world is. Having a diverse portfolio will help ensure that you get a piece of what people are doing right, wherever that may be. I can't imagine how something to do with the Civic Center in this small town will so adversly effect a globally diversified portfolio with a broad range of investments as to negate the growth found in those investments?

Of course if your money isnt going as far here because of what has been done, you can always check out other parts of the country and see how far your money goes there and move.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I think shadows reminds me of the old miner guy Gabbie Johnson in the movie "Blazing Saddles".

"Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, but it expressed a courage that is little seen in this day and age."

Shadow's gibberish is pure Timothy Leary however.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by shadows


It is time for the citizens to stand up and be counted and have a vote on any proposition as large as this one.
 
Where do you stand?  

Didn't you once say you lived in an unincorporated area of Broken Arrow?

I used to live in Broken Arrow, but I wised up.

[shadows]

TheArtist quoted:

Shadows, please stop trying to talk about any issue that is economic. It hurts my brain to try and figure out your thought process.
-----------------------------

I just went to the store and purchased a gallon of milk  and a box of cheese.   In 1940 I paid 17 cents for the milk and 17 cents for the cheese.  Now in the economic world of today the milk cost three $3.49 the box of cheese was $3.99.  Now before the school burned and the school mom married that cowpuncher. [a married teacher could not teach in school].  After that before enough taxes could be collected to rebuild along with the eighth was considered the top of general education.  The classes in simple civics was considered the major class.  [short story}

So I missed out whether the glass is half empty or half full in knowing of the social economics of today.  To my thinking we continue to devaluate the currency as  China is picking it up in Europe to maintain its value and protect their interest.  And this is a bolstering economy?

My thought process stems to the fact that the city is buying a building with so much space that they are going into real-estate to market the unused space.  This on the slight of hand dealing that is being used by the bureaucrats, to convince us that the issuing of revenue bonds do not circumventing an election on the proposition by people.  

The inconvenience and access to the building cannot in any economical way be feasible.

The revenue bond legislative act was not intended to be used in such a way where those bonds were to sustain the peoples government.  The Airport authority and the failed airlines so illustrates that the revenue bond are also a liability on the working poor and a mortgage against their future retirement.

[2] Gold is not a stable currency but it has been used as such in Europe for centuries.  Even the Romans used lead to make their gold coins go further.  We have surpassed them as we no longer even use gold ink on the backs of the green plentiful barter of exchange bills.  It  does not even bother us that China has in our controlled world bank in access of 1.2 trillion dollars in our phony bills that this super power can spend it to make purchases our of
remaining assets.

[4] The perfect solution to the now economic boom of the 50's would be to issue new money on the 1st of January by replacing the currency with a 10 cent on each dollar in banks or holding companies and those turned in by the individuals.   This would cause the increased guaranteed accounting of all outstanding currency.    Boy! Wouldn't the IRS like that.

My logic is that the city hall belongs to the citizens and they should be considered first in accessibility, along with the cost to them, not to the bureaucracies that are outdistancing the needs of the working poor that is supporting it.   There is a difference in taxes paid by the working poor in private industries and those rebated by employees on the city payrolls.  All taxes are generated by the private industries.  We would have a 10% increase in the economy each year but would it not be devaluating our curency?  
_____________________________________

mr.jaynes
----------------------------------------------
I live in the city limits of B.A.   I moved here because it  was in the fence line of New Tulsa an incorporated city.   It was a small city with all utilities. Every one had a say in government.  We assisted the upkeep of the streets subsidizing the Wagoner county commissioner road tax,   The now generation came and petition B.A. [ with their help] to abandon the New Tulsa Charter and annex to B.A.   I was the sole person who pled an objection both to the emergency clause and the annexing at both commission meetings with the sneaky FOI of the petition in hand,   B.A. said if it did not work out then they would dis-annex.  [ha, ha]
     
What has happened?   Our roads likes Tulsa's have gone to hell.

I have real-estate holdings in Tulsa,  I have Taxation without representation in Tulsa.

[RecycleMichael]

So all this goes back to the fact that you hate city employees?

You don't want them to park near where they work...you say their salaries are paid on the backs of the working poor...and claim taxes are rebated to the city employees?

Why do you hate city employees? There has to be a story here...

[USRufnex]

quote:What has happened? Our roads likes Tulsa's have gone to hell.

I have real-estate holdings in Tulsa, I have Taxation without representation in Tulsa.

Memories... I remember when 169 only went south down to 21st Street and the two lanes north/southbound didn't hold a candle to the improved condition that highway is in now... and well, Hwy 412 (old Hwy 33) is certainly much nicer than it was back in the day...

"And now, let's do something about Highway 33!"
Dan P. Holmes

[Conan71]

I think Shadows has you trumped USR.  I think he can remember wagon trails. [}:)]