River Plan- Public Infrastructure

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

So is it legal or not legal to tell your employees to put up the signs. If it is I will tell mine to put up some Vote Yes signs. If they dont like it they can start their own company or go work some place else.

It's legal.  Probably backfire on you, but it's legal.

I guess the calculation would be that losing their votes because they secretly hate me would be made up for by the signs convincing more people to vote yes.  Actually, they would never secretly hate me, they are quite adept at expressing things like that right out in the open. Jeez and ya know I can tell they are already itching to try and ask for... Whats that holiday? Oh yea Christmas, off once again this year. Poor reason to pick a mans pocket every 25th of December.

The basic dishonesty of this behavior is that the sign expresses bank management's viewpoint.  

Not the viewpoint of the employee.

The use of the residential yard of the employee is being coerced under an implied intimidation to provide the appearance of a widespread Grass-roots support for Vision 2025.

That act was a deception.

                                              Image is the art of deception. It has no credibility or substance. Illusionary(Visionary?) governments of business clearly cannot handle the realities of the business of government. All the  previous attempts at turning over our government to the private sector have been disastrous failures. Excuse me if I don't march  lockstep in the private partnership parade and goose step down that primrose path behind river fuhrer- John Selph.

Michael Bates' at www.Batesline.com
has an Blog entry today styled:

If you wish, you may opt out... of your job

His blog entry picks on the lengthy discussion thread on this Forum about certain UNETHICAL big business tactics used to compel their employees to visibly support Vision 2025.

One of Michael's most-telling paragraphs about the strong-arm tactics of a major Tulsa employer recites:

What BOk did, if this employee's story is accurate, is far worse. If you disagreed with your company's position on the tax, you had to conspicuously identify yourself as an opponent. Making the signs opt-in would have allowed opponents of the tax to blend in with those who just didn't get around to requesting a sign.

Read the entire weblog, including the nauseating Defense of the Indefensible by TulsaNow Forum's biased bloviater RecycleMichael.

Hope you can keep down your breakfast.

Read on at this link:

http://www.batesline.com/archives/003303.html

[RecycleMichael]

Gee un-friendly Bear...

I guess all those years you spent in the circus wearing a dress and riding a bicycle have made you bitter.

[waterboy]

Why hasn't this sub-topic to the main thread been moved to its own topic? It has little to do with infrastructure.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Gee un-friendly Bear...

I guess all those years you spent in the circus wearing a dress and riding a bicycle have made you bitter.

Giggle-giggle, that's a funny one.  Trained circus Bear riding a Bicycle.  Picture that.

Well, picture this:  The local "Octopus" controlling our public policy and OUR LIVES  has many tentacles.

Those tentacles have many suckers.

Smile, Sucker.

[]

P.S. Keep drinking the Banana Republic of Tulsa Tax Kool-Aid.

It helps salve those few remaining fragments of a guilty conscience.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Why hasn't this sub-topic to the main thread been moved to its own topic? It has little to do with infrastructure.

It has been a useful discussion of how local Infrastructure decisions, expanded Sales tax-based funding, and Public Policy are formulated in the Banana Republic of Tulsa.

5478 Read-sessions, and 229 Replies may not be a record for a Forum Topic, but it does indicate a high interest in this Topic.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Why hasn't this sub-topic to the main thread been moved to its own topic? It has little to do with infrastructure.

It has been a useful discussion of how local Infrastructure decisions, expanded Sales tax-based funding, and Public Policy are formulated in the Banana Republic of Tulsa.

5478 Read-sessions, and 229 Replies may not be a record for a Forum Topic, but it does indicate a high interest in this Topic.

I keep looking on this post hoping there is something interesting being said, only to find I have forgotten that this is the one with the useless drivel, and the people arguing about the useless drivel.

And whats up with the childish "Banana Republic of Tulsa" comments over and over and over and over and over. Even if you had something worth saying those kinds of straw men comments immediately turn people off and make any reader less likely to take the comment seriously. As soon as I read something like that I immediately forget everything else the person has written and dont take them seriously. Who would want to agree with or think like a nutcase? Its shows you do not want to convince people of your argument, you just want to argue. If you want to convice people and sway them to your point of view every one knows thats not the way to do it. So the average person automatically assumes you just want to argue for arguings sake and they turn off.  I honestly dont remember a thing you have said other than Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa.....= Friendly Bear = freakshow. Or was that the real message you were trying to get across?

[waterboy]

Out of 10 pages, 4 of them are devoted to this discussion of sign abuse 4years ago. The "Banana Republic of Tulsa" appeared for the first time on page 6. Marginally related to discussion of how the infrastructure relates to the river plan and dominated by FB, Swake, BOKworker. Bore-ing.

[Conan71]

Let me see if I can bring in a few observations to get this meandering thread back on "infrastructure".

I walked through the "new river" section of Los Olas in Ft. Lauderdale last weekend and what I see is similar OKC and San Antonio.  I picked up a copy of one of their local magazines similar to TulsaPeople.  It was an issue which was devoted to development, old FLL vs. new FLL, etc.  One article devoted to the river development just west of the main Los Olas district mentioned San Antonio as being a successful example of river development.

One thing that these three river areas share in common, is a much narrower channel than the Arkansas with public gathering areas mixed with restaurants, galleries, and boutiques.

Looking at the major rivers of Europe like the Thames, Seine, and Tiber, they are wider channels but also sport sea walls or rip rap for stabilized stream banks which make them more attractive.

River development like FLL, OKC, and San Antonio are all inviting and have a cozy feel to them.  I don't see that it's really possible to create a narrow channel for development along the Arkansas in Tulsa, but I do believe stabilizing the banks with rock or stone is more attractive than the weedy look we have now.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Why hasn't this sub-topic to the main thread been moved to its own topic? It has little to do with infrastructure.

It has been a useful discussion of how local Infrastructure decisions, expanded Sales tax-based funding, and Public Policy are formulated in the Banana Republic of Tulsa.

5478 Read-sessions, and 229 Replies may not be a record for a Forum Topic, but it does indicate a high interest in this Topic.

I keep looking on this post hoping there is something interesting being said, only to find I have forgotten that this is the one with the useless drivel, and the people arguing about the useless drivel.

And whats up with the childish "Banana Republic of Tulsa" comments over and over and over and over and over. Even if you had something worth saying those kinds of straw men comments immediately turn people off and make any reader less likely to take the comment seriously. As soon as I read something like that I immediately forget everything else the person has written and dont take them seriously. Who would want to agree with or think like a nutcase? Its shows you do not want to convince people of your argument, you just want to argue. If you want to convice people and sway them to your point of view every one knows thats not the way to do it. So the average person automatically assumes you just want to argue for arguings sake and they turn off.  I honestly dont remember a thing you have said other than Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa.....= Friendly Bear = freakshow. Or was that the real message you were trying to get across?

People can believe what they want.

As this is a public policy Forum, I'll post my belief, opinions, and for that matter, FACTS, too.

And, I will do so as long as the Forum Moderators deem that my comments do not contravene their ever-elastic Rules of Deportment.

As to the Banana Republic of Tulsa, I simply want Forum Lurkers and Posters to start to understand the local political paradigm in its essential, stark, and actually quite scary reality.

Tulsa unfortunately has many, many of the attributes of a back-ward Central American Banana Republic.  

These small countries have been ruled for Generations by a small, powerful, unenlightened, and greedy Oligarchy, that control all the reins of power, the judiciary, the Police, the Mass Communications media, and the major means of economic production.

I actually can't think of a more fitting name than what Tulsa really and truly is:  

A Banana Republic.

Unless of course, everyone keeps Drinking the Kool-Aid.

We will all now drink the River Tax-Hike Kool-Aide.

[]

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Why hasn't this sub-topic to the main thread been moved to its own topic? It has little to do with infrastructure.

It has been a useful discussion of how local Infrastructure decisions, expanded Sales tax-based funding, and Public Policy are formulated in the Banana Republic of Tulsa.

5478 Read-sessions, and 229 Replies may not be a record for a Forum Topic, but it does indicate a high interest in this Topic.

I keep looking on this post hoping there is something interesting being said, only to find I have forgotten that this is the one with the useless drivel, and the people arguing about the useless drivel.

And whats up with the childish "Banana Republic of Tulsa" comments over and over and over and over and over. Even if you had something worth saying those kinds of straw men comments immediately turn people off and make any reader less likely to take the comment seriously. As soon as I read something like that I immediately forget everything else the person has written and dont take them seriously. Who would want to agree with or think like a nutcase? Its shows you do not want to convince people of your argument, you just want to argue. If you want to convice people and sway them to your point of view every one knows thats not the way to do it. So the average person automatically assumes you just want to argue for arguings sake and they turn off.  I honestly dont remember a thing you have said other than Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa.....= Friendly Bear = freakshow. Or was that the real message you were trying to get across?

People can believe what they want.

As this is a public policy Forum, I'll post my belief, opinions, and for that matter, FACTS, too.

And, I will do so as long as the Forum Moderators deem that my comments do not contravene their ever-elastic Rules of Deportment.

As to the Banana Republic of Tulsa, I simply want Forum Lurkers and Posters to start to understand the local political paradigm in its essential, stark, and actually quite scary reality.

Tulsa unfortunately has many, many of the attributes of a back-ward Central American Banana Republic.  

These small countries have been ruled for Generations by a small, powerful, unenlightened, and greedy Oligarchy, that control all the reins of power, the judiciary, the Police, the Mass Communications media, and the major means of economic production.

I actually can't think of a more fitting name than what Tulsa really and truly is:  

A Banana Republic.

Unless of course, everyone keeps Drinking the Kool-Aid.

We will all now drink the River Tax-Hike Kool-Aide.

[]

way to go threadcrapper... thanks for destroying the thread... instead of a discussion about infrastructure and plans it turned into one man's anti-tax soapbox and paranoid conspiracy theories... well done...

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Why hasn't this sub-topic to the main thread been moved to its own topic? It has little to do with infrastructure.

It has been a useful discussion of how local Infrastructure decisions, expanded Sales tax-based funding, and Public Policy are formulated in the Banana Republic of Tulsa.

5478 Read-sessions, and 229 Replies may not be a record for a Forum Topic, but it does indicate a high interest in this Topic.

I keep looking on this post hoping there is something interesting being said, only to find I have forgotten that this is the one with the useless drivel, and the people arguing about the useless drivel.

And whats up with the childish "Banana Republic of Tulsa" comments over and over and over and over and over. Even if you had something worth saying those kinds of straw men comments immediately turn people off and make any reader less likely to take the comment seriously. As soon as I read something like that I immediately forget everything else the person has written and dont take them seriously. Who would want to agree with or think like a nutcase? Its shows you do not want to convince people of your argument, you just want to argue. If you want to convice people and sway them to your point of view every one knows thats not the way to do it. So the average person automatically assumes you just want to argue for arguings sake and they turn off.  I honestly dont remember a thing you have said other than Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa, Banana Republic of Tulsa.....= Friendly Bear = freakshow. Or was that the real message you were trying to get across?

People can believe what they want.

As this is a public policy Forum, I'll post my belief, opinions, and for that matter, FACTS, too.

And, I will do so as long as the Forum Moderators deem that my comments do not contravene their ever-elastic Rules of Deportment.

As to the Banana Republic of Tulsa, I simply want Forum Lurkers and Posters to start to understand the local political paradigm in its essential, stark, and actually quite scary reality.

Tulsa unfortunately has many, many of the attributes of a back-ward Central American Banana Republic.  

These small countries have been ruled for Generations by a small, powerful, unenlightened, and greedy Oligarchy, that control all the reins of power, the judiciary, the Police, the Mass Communications media, and the major means of economic production.

I actually can't think of a more fitting name than what Tulsa really and truly is:  

A Banana Republic.

Unless of course, everyone keeps Drinking the Kool-Aid.

We will all now drink the River Tax-Hike Kool-Aide.

[]

way to go threadcrapper... thanks for destroying the thread... instead of a discussion about infrastructure and plans it turned into one man's anti-tax soapbox and paranoid conspiracy theories... well done...

Thank you.

I sincerely believe that any discussion under a Development Topic should be framed within the reality of the local political paradigm.

Tulsa is a Banana Republic.  

Therefore, this is an entirely proper framework to view discussion about local infrastructure, the appropriate level of taxation to pay for the infrastructure, infrastructure PRIORITIES, and finally, the control over historical, current and future Public Policy by the ruling power Oligarchy.

And, the Tax-me-More Kool-Aid, too.

[:X]

[rwarn17588]

Remember, folks, there is the "ignore" button that you can use for certain individuals who post long-winded, redundant opinions. It doesn't have to be limited to Paul Tay. []

[MichaelC]

Good point.  

You have to be logged on to ignore someone.  So no more idling in the off position, I'm on now.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

Good point.  

You have to be logged on to ignore someone.  So no more idling in the off position, I'm on now.

                                               Denial is an easy and effective way to numb yourself to the dysfunction. Tune out, turn off, drop in.                                                     Tulsa needs an intervention.

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Let me see if I can bring in a few observations to get this meandering thread back on "infrastructure".

I walked through the "new river" section of Los Olas in Ft. Lauderdale last weekend and what I see is similar OKC and San Antonio.  I picked up a copy of one of their local magazines similar to TulsaPeople.  It was an issue which was devoted to development, old FLL vs. new FLL, etc.  One article devoted to the river development just west of the main Los Olas district mentioned San Antonio as being a successful example of river development.

One thing that these three river areas share in common, is a much narrower channel than the Arkansas with public gathering areas mixed with restaurants, galleries, and boutiques.

Looking at the major rivers of Europe like the Thames, Seine, and Tiber, they are wider channels but also sport sea walls or rip rap for stabilized stream banks which make them more attractive.

River development like FLL, OKC, and San Antonio are all inviting and have a cozy feel to them.  I don't see that it's really possible to create a narrow channel for development along the Arkansas in Tulsa, but I do believe stabilizing the banks with rock or stone is more attractive than the weedy look we have now.

When you say river development in OKC, I assume you mean the Bricktown Canal? The Oklahoma River looks like a big irrigation ditch -- full of water, but no trees on its banks.

It's useful to compare river widths. These are some rough measurements I gleaned from Google Earth, from biggest to smallest:

East River at Brooklyn Bridge: 1800'
Arkansas River bed at 71st St: 1800'
Arkansas River bed at 61st St: 1600'
Arkansas River bed at 96th St: 1400'
Arkansas River bed at 41st St: 1300'
Arkansas River at Little Rock: 1100'
Zink Lake: 1000-1200'
Vltava at Charles Bridge, Prague: 900'
Thames at Tower Bridge: 800'
Town Lake, Austin: 350-700'
Oklahoma River (dammed part): 400'
Seine at Pont Neuf: 400'
Kerr-McClellan Waterway near Catoosa: 360'
Seine, north channel at Pont Notre Dame: 300'
Arkansas River at Wichita: 250-275'
Mingo Creek (from crest to crest of concrete channel): 250'
Chicago River: 180-250'
Cuyahoga River (Cleveland Flats): 150-250'
Ft. Lauderdale New River at the Las Olas Riverfront: 130'
Oklahoma River, undammed: 100-200'
Bird Creek near Mohawk Park: 100'
Caney River near Bartlesville: 100'
San Antonio River: 30-40'
Bricktown Canal: 25-40'
Mill Creek, McClure Park: 20'

It was interesting to learn that in the early 20th century, San Antonio officials considered covering over the river as a storm sewer. That's what was done in Tulsa to Elm Creek upstream from Central Park and between Central Park and the river. If we want cozy and inviting along a narrow channel, the Pearl District proposal to run Elm Creek in the open as a canal in the middle of 6th Street may be the best way to make that happen. Someone has had the idea of doing the same thing along the lower stretch of Elm Creek, which would connect 18th and Boston to the River at 21st.