Are Campus Police Accountable?

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Paul

Wow!  I'm almost speechless at the innacuracies posted in this thread.  Almost.  I'd like to address some of the statements and mistatements made here....

...As far as pay goes, Tulsa Police officers start with a base salary of $33,711 per year.  That's it, no ifs ands or buts...  Now, that's accurate information you can take to the bank....

Sorry to point out your innaccuracies, but you are quoting the pay while attending the Academy.

Tulsa Police officers start at $42,470.

http://www.tulsapolice.org/recruiting/salary_benefits.html

[Paul]

You did say STARTING salary.  And that salary stays in effect during the academy, FTO program, and the probationary period, if I'm not mistaken.  That means the first year of employment, while the officer is considered a probationary employee.  So, they START their second year at $42,470.  I believe that's how it works.  If not, I stand corrected.  I know that ALL Tulsa Police Officers must attend the Tulsa Academy, regardless of experience.  That means they start at the academy pay rate, right?  

Of the many points I made, would you consider any others to be inaccurate?  You mentioned INACCURACIES, plural.  I hope you'll concede that the larger point was to clarify what a Campus Police Officer is and how they "differ" from other officers.  The previous posts on this thread were misleading on that topic.  

I think this thread started as a question about the concept of campus policing and how it might be utilized by Tulsa Public Schools.  I thought the readers should have the chance to understand what campus police do, how they are held accountable, and how they are similar and disimilar to other law enforcement agencies.

Fair enough?

[RecycleMichael]

Fair enough for me.

I thought while you were in school you were a cadet and were not an officer until you were sworn in...but it is a minor difference. Thanks for posting information about your knowledge of campus police. We didn't have many of them when I went to school.

I took my son back to my old high school to watch a basketball game a few years ago and had to go through two metal detectors. It is clearly a different world than the one I grew up in.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Paul

Wow!  I'm almost speechless at the innacuracies posted in this thread.  Almost.  I'd like to address some of the statements and mistatements made here.

First, Campus Police are trained to the same standards as all other police officers in the state of Oklahoma.  While its true that the Tulsa Police Department far exceeds the amount of initial training required for officers by the state, most departments in this state do not.  So, a Jenks Campus Police Officer does not have the same level of required initial training as an officer from TPD, but he has the exact same training as members of just about every other department in the state.  

Next, Campus Police are police, plain and simple.  We don't get to decide who is and who is not a cop, just because we like them or don't.  The laws of the State of Oklahoma are quite clear.  Campus Police differ from other police in only one respect:  jurisdiction.  Campus Police enforce laws only on the property owned, operated, or under the control of their employing agency.  The same restrictions apply to ALL police officers.  A Sand Springs officer, for example, cannot simply decide to patrol the streets of Tulsa and make arrests there.  He does not have the authority to do that.  All officers are bound by the same restrictions.  A special note here, if a Campus Police officer, or one from Sand Springs for that matter, sees a violation occur within his jurisdiction, he may chase the suspect to kingdom come, if neccessary, to take him into custody, regardless of whose jurisdiction the suspect is in when captured.  Sorry, you can't just step off the campus and yell "safe at home" and expect the chase to end with an "aw shucks".  

As far as pay goes, Tulsa Police officers start with a base salary of $33,711 per year.  That's it, no ifs ands or buts.  They may get a $1200 per year bonus for education, I don't know.  Even so, that makes the pay $34,911.  Even factoring in the clothing allowance, which is very strictly monitored and only used for department uniforms and equipment, brings the total starting salary to $35,536.  That's a far cry from the $42,000 or so one writer mentioned.  And yes, a 4 year degree is required for that department.  That's not much given the requirements.  Jenks Campus Police start at about $12 per hour or so.  With overtime and fairly regular pay raises, I doubt anyone in the department earns less than $40,000 per year.  And like almost all other Oklahoma police departments, Jenks Campus Police do not require a 4 year degree as does the TPD.  

Tulsa has to budget for over 700 officers, their equipment and uniforms, and an awful lot of infrastructure that goes with running a department of that size.  Its expensive, so some of the officers only get a new car every 4 or 5 years, with reserve officers using some pretty outdated equipment.  That's understandable.  The Jenks Campus Police now has 3 new Impalas and a new Tahoe, while retaining two old Crown Victoria Interceptors to round out the fleet.  Those will be replaced in fairly short order, as meager funds allow.  True, the equipment used by the campus officers has improved quite a bit in recent years, as has the quality and motivation of the officers.  I personally feel this is tied to the hiring of a new chief in 2004.  

Which reminds me, the Chief is a 28 year veteran of the Tulsa Police Department, where he served as an investigator, a traffic officer, and a supervisor.  In fact, he was the lead investigator in TPD's background investigations unit.  I highly doubt that campus police officers would fail to meet the background standards of the TPD, which were at least in part, formed by the new chief himself.  

Experience, you ask?  Well, two of our officers come from the Tulsa Police Reserve with years of service to that organization.  They are intimately familiar with the inner workings of the TPD, and passed the rigorous background checks and training required there.  They both have years of experience with other local agencies as full time officers.  Another officer has 12 years of experience from a major metropolitan police department in another state.  Another has 5 years experience in one of the largest metropolitan areas in our country, and has an associates degree in police science, and years of leadership experience in the U.S. military.  The Assistant Chief has worked for about 15 years for the Jenks Campus Police.  I believe he has a pretty firm grasp on the job at this point.  That's six full time officers.  They also have 4 or 5 reserve officers, all with extensive experience from other agencies in the area.

Also, I'd like to touch on accountability.  Other agencies, like the TPD, have to abide by the laws of the state, and by policies and procedures of their department and the municipalities or counties which employ them.  They also undergo public scrutiny and must answer to court rulings and orders.  The campus police officer must also labor under all those laws, rules, policies, procedures, supervisors, courts and public scrutiny.  Campus police also have to answer to the School Board, the Superintendant, and the parents and families of the 10,000 or so students attending school in Jenks.  In short, campus police officers are accountable to all the same folks as other officers, and then some.  

Campus Police have the same authority to arrest, and the same responsibility to the public as any other police officer in any other agency.  And yes, for the record, the job is different from any other agency out there.  Police in Skiatook have a much different job from those in Tulsa, Broken Arrow, or Jenks.  Every agency has its own focus, its own issues, its own personalities.  Jenks Campus Police are different from Tulsa Police in about the same way as any agency is different from any other.  They have a focus on safety and security first, the uninterrupted continuation of the education process second, and law enforcement third.  And rest assured, when an officer of the Jenks Campus Police department says, "you're under arrest", the day will end with you in the same jail you'd be in if a TPD officer said the same thing to you.  

Now, that's accurate information you can take to the bank....

I will take your "accurate information" to the bank.  TPD's website clearly states they start at $42,470.  Which is a mere 30 dollars off of what I said in an earlier post of $42,500.  While training in the Academy you make $3217.44 which is some $38,000 dollars if my math is correct.  Dont believe me, check it out for yourself...

http://www.tulsapolice.org/recruiting/salary_benefits.html

Now as for the training, all police departments arent trained the same in this state. OHP is trained to higher standards then Tulsa.  Dont believe me, go try and test for them.  Out of almost 1200 applicants about 2yrs ago, only 40 had completed the initial endurance test and passed the background test.

You talk about jurisdiction, anyone with half a brain should know that Tulsa PD only has jurisdiction within the city limits of Tulsa and the Tulsa County Sheriffs office only has jurisdiction in Tulsa County.  

Now some counties/cities are cross deputized with certain Indian tribes and vise versa but thats a whole other discussion in and of itself.

Sure glad I didnt take that money to the bank, they would arrest me for it being counterfiet if you catch my drift....

[Paul]

The last post here makes me wonder if someone has their panties in a knot.  He sounds angry, doesn't he?  

I did get my information from the Tulsa Police website.  Apparently, you didn't actually read what I had to say on the topic of officer pay.  It's okay, I'll restate it.  No one can "start" at the TPD as an officer, regardless of their background.  They must start at the academy as an Apprentice Police Officer.  That's everyone, no exceptions I've ever heard of.  The academy is approximately 6 months long.  So, I guess you could say that "Tulsa Police Officers" start at that higher wage, but only after they've been employed by the department for at least 6 months as trainees.  So, it is a little misleading, a problem you seem very interested in glossing over.  

I also stated pretty clearly that it is irrelevant, as was most of the original commentary comparing TPD to Jenks Campus Police.  They are not the same animal.  They are not designed to do the same things.  All agencies are different.  All agencies have different missions, purposes, organization.  

As far as training goes, fewer than ten agencies in the entire state of Oklahoma are authorized to conduct their own academy.  That leaves well over ninety percent of all law enforcement officers in the state trained directly by the state at the state's academy.  The other (less than) ten percent must meet all the same standards as officers trained at the state academy, but they may also add to the program by training officers to certain standards specific to their own departments.  Most officers trained at the state's academy, then must undergo a few weeks of classroom training at their own departments so they can learn departmental procedures, regulations, equipment, organization, and forms.  All those things are different in each department.  Then, the new officer starts the FTO program.  TPD and some other agencies simply cut out the middle man by keeping the officers in the training environment to learn all those things.  And yes, TPD does train their officers better than the state academy does.  So does the Highway Patrol, where the academy is no where near as all-encompassing as TPD's academy.  I've audited blocks of instruction in both places, as well as several other academies throughout the U.S.  In my humble opinion, TPD is a step above OHP in their initial training. OHP probably runs a little more and has more rigorous physical training standards.  That's about 5 percent of the job, though, so it doesn't really keep pace with the rest of the training TPD undergoes.  Again, my opinion.  And just for the record, hiring standards have little or nothing to do with training standards.  In some agencies, the standards for hiring an officer are higher simply because they don't want to take a lot of time training them.  They look for people who are already expereinced or especially quick to learn new processes.  The number of applicants has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of people hired.  The state was authorized by law to employ a specific number of OHP troopers.  They hired enough people to keep the numbers at statutory levels.  If 42 people applied, or 42,000, they still would have hired the same number.  

I especially enjoyed the "half a brain" jibe concerning jurisdiction.  Most people have no idea what the word even means, yourself included I strongly suspect.  I'm sorry you feel so inadequate in your arguments that you feel the need to belittle others involved in the dialogue.  That is reflective of the value of your argument, I'm afraid.  Most people have no idea at all what the "jurisdiction" of the campus police is or whether or not campus police are actually police like any others.  Many people suffer from the misconception that campus police are not actually police, but are really some kind of private security agency with very limited arrest powers.  That is inaccurate and I hope my contribution to the dialogue led to a better understanding of the fact that campus police are, in fact, police, just like any other police officers in any other department.  

I also liked your quip early in the dialogue regarding campus police only training for two days a year at the range.  Ludicrous, of course.  As stated, campus police attend the same academy that more than ninety percent of officers in the state attend.  The state also requres at least 25 hours of continuing training every year to maintain certification.  That's for all officers in the state.  I personally know that officers of the Jenks Campus Police annually complete many more hours of state approved law enforcement related training than many supervisors with TPD.  I know this personally and absolutely.  At least one patrol officer in the campus police, not a supervisor, completed a couple of hundred hours of training in just one year.  And the level of training the regular officers of the campus police receive is routinely the same level of training chiefs of police and senior administrators receive in other agencies.  On some topics, even TPD sergeants and captains are not trained to half the standards as the regular officers in the campus police.  Again, this is a focus issue.  Campus police don't go to SWAT school or learn to safely dismantle meth labs.  That training has no relevance to their mission.  But, when you look at things like critical incident management, crisis intervention, community policing, and a host of other topics, the campus police in Jenks are far better trained than most supervisors in most agencies anywhere in the state of Oklahoma.  

You stated that you know "quite a bit about TPD."  I don't doubt that you've heard lots of shop talk, probably from friends or relatives in the department.  Good for you.  Now, take a step back, take a breath or two, and look at the entire picture.  I don't know why you're so ticked off, or why you feel the need to bash an entire organization you clearly know nothing about.  I don't even care why, as a matter of fact.  The reason is irrelevant.  

I do know a few things you should find important.  You identify yourself as an alumnist of the University of Tulsa.  You should be ashamed of yourself.  I have lived in Tulsa for quite some time now, I have several relatives who graduated from that esteemed institution, and I know they would all take offense at your rantings.  You clearly have not researched the matter you are discussing.  You clearly are not reading the entries to which you are responding.  You clearly have a grasp of the English language which is far more limited than it should be with your stated educational background.  And you fume and jibe at your counterparts in the conversation with little irrelevancies and derisive commentary.  This misbehavior is not worthy of a TU alum.  

Before you put to paper any further misinformed opinions about the Jenks Campus Police, why don't you just give them a call.  They're in the phone book.  Maybe they'd even let you come out and take a look around, see who works for them and what they do with their day.  Then you'd have a better idea what you're talking about.  Once you've done that, maybe you can enlighten the rest of the readers here by telling us what you learned.  I think you'll be surprised....

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Paul

The last post here makes me wonder if someone has their panties in a knot.  He sounds angry, doesn't he?  

I did get my information from the Tulsa Police website.  Apparently, you didn't actually read what I had to say on the topic of officer pay.  It's okay, I'll restate it.  No one can "start" at the TPD as an officer, regardless of their background.  They must start at the academy as an Apprentice Police Officer.  That's everyone, no exceptions I've ever heard of.  The academy is approximately 6 months long.  So, I guess you could say that "Tulsa Police Officers" start at that higher wage, but only after they've been employed by the department for at least 6 months as trainees.  So, it is a little misleading, a problem you seem very interested in glossing over.  

I also stated pretty clearly that it is irrelevant, as was most of the original commentary comparing TPD to Jenks Campus Police.  They are not the same animal.  They are not designed to do the same things.  All agencies are different.  All agencies have different missions, purposes, organization.  

As far as training goes, fewer than ten agencies in the entire state of Oklahoma are authorized to conduct their own academy.  That leaves well over ninety percent of all law enforcement officers in the state trained directly by the state at the state's academy.  The other (less than) ten percent must meet all the same standards as officers trained at the state academy, but they may also add to the program by training officers to certain standards specific to their own departments.  Most officers trained at the state's academy, then must undergo a few weeks of classroom training at their own departments so they can learn departmental procedures, regulations, equipment, organization, and forms.  All those things are different in each department.  Then, the new officer starts the FTO program.  TPD and some other agencies simply cut out the middle man by keeping the officers in the training environment to learn all those things.  And yes, TPD does train their officers better than the state academy does.  So does the Highway Patrol, where the academy is no where near as all-encompassing as TPD's academy.  I've audited blocks of instruction in both places, as well as several other academies throughout the U.S.  In my humble opinion, TPD is a step above OHP in their initial training. OHP probably runs a little more and has more rigorous physical training standards.  That's about 5 percent of the job, though, so it doesn't really keep pace with the rest of the training TPD undergoes.  Again, my opinion.  And just for the record, hiring standards have little or nothing to do with training standards.  In some agencies, the standards for hiring an officer are higher simply because they don't want to take a lot of time training them.  They look for people who are already expereinced or especially quick to learn new processes.  The number of applicants has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of people hired.  The state was authorized by law to employ a specific number of OHP troopers.  They hired enough people to keep the numbers at statutory levels.  If 42 people applied, or 42,000, they still would have hired the same number.  

I especially enjoyed the "half a brain" jibe concerning jurisdiction.  Most people have no idea what the word even means, yourself included I strongly suspect.  I'm sorry you feel so inadequate in your arguments that you feel the need to belittle others involved in the dialogue.  That is reflective of the value of your argument, I'm afraid.  Most people have no idea at all what the "jurisdiction" of the campus police is or whether or not campus police are actually police like any others.  Many people suffer from the misconception that campus police are not actually police, but are really some kind of private security agency with very limited arrest powers.  That is inaccurate and I hope my contribution to the dialogue led to a better understanding of the fact that campus police are, in fact, police, just like any other police officers in any other department.  

I also liked your quip early in the dialogue regarding campus police only training for two days a year at the range.  Ludicrous, of course.  As stated, campus police attend the same academy that more than ninety percent of officers in the state attend.  The state also requres at least 25 hours of continuing training every year to maintain certification.  That's for all officers in the state.  I personally know that officers of the Jenks Campus Police annually complete many more hours of state approved law enforcement related training than many supervisors with TPD.  I know this personally and absolutely.  At least one patrol officer in the campus police, not a supervisor, completed a couple of hundred hours of training in just one year.  And the level of training the regular officers of the campus police receive is routinely the same level of training chiefs of police and senior administrators receive in other agencies.  On some topics, even TPD sergeants and captains are not trained to half the standards as the regular officers in the campus police.  Again, this is a focus issue.  Campus police don't go to SWAT school or learn to safely dismantle meth labs.  That training has no relevance to their mission.  But, when you look at things like critical incident management, crisis intervention, community policing, and a host of other topics, the campus police in Jenks are far better trained than most supervisors in most agencies anywhere in the state of Oklahoma.  

You stated that you know "quite a bit about TPD."  I don't doubt that you've heard lots of shop talk, probably from friends or relatives in the department.  Good for you.  Now, take a step back, take a breath or two, and look at the entire picture.  I don't know why you're so ticked off, or why you feel the need to bash an entire organization you clearly know nothing about.  I don't even care why, as a matter of fact.  The reason is irrelevant.  

I do know a few things you should find important.  You identify yourself as an alumnist of the University of Tulsa.  You should be ashamed of yourself.  I have lived in Tulsa for quite some time now, I have several relatives who graduated from that esteemed institution, and I know they would all take offense at your rantings.  You clearly have not researched the matter you are discussing.  You clearly are not reading the entries to which you are responding.  You clearly have a grasp of the English language which is far more limited than it should be with your stated educational background.  And you fume and jibe at your counterparts in the conversation with little irrelevancies and derisive commentary.  This misbehavior is not worthy of a TU alum.  

Before you put to paper any further misinformed opinions about the Jenks Campus Police, why don't you just give them a call.  They're in the phone book.  Maybe they'd even let you come out and take a look around, see who works for them and what they do with their day.  Then you'd have a better idea what you're talking about.  Once you've done that, maybe you can enlighten the rest of the readers here by telling us what you learned.  I think you'll be surprised....

First off, I wanted to start off I proved your salary amounts wrong in an earlier post, apparently you didnt read it correctly, so I will explain it again for you so maybe you can understand.  Starting out in the academy, you get paid 3217.44 PER MONTH.  Lets pretend they stay in the academy the entire year (I KNOW THEY DONT) that would bring their salary to $38,609.28.  See what I did there? Now your earlier "accurate information that anyone could take to the bank" is actually inaccurate. Correct??

Now your first year out of FTO status (patrol officer) your starting pay is $42,470.16.  I dont know how I can make this any more clearer for you.  

2.  Lets tackle Jurisdiction.  I will explain myself for you once again.  Anyone who has a valid drivers license should know that Tulsa Police Officers do not have jurisdiction in Los Angeles California, Chicago, Illinois or New York. Is that clear enough? Just like officers from those cities would not have jurisdiction in Tulsa.  Now IMO anyone with "half a brain" would know and understand that.

3.  "My quip about campus police training" is being misunderstood.  Not once did I ever say thats the only training they receive.  I was simply stating that from reading an article in an earlier post( in this thread) that TPD while in the academy go through more extensive handgun and range training.  Not once did I ever say thats the only training they receive.

3.  I have been around TPD for 8 years now (since I was a senior in HS).  I have gone on numerous ride alongs with them.  I also interned with them for 2yrs while in college.  I worked closely with homicide detectives, sex crimes, robbery, sat in on the academy with cadets, academy instructors, SOT (formerly SWAT)instructors, and did patrol with different patrol officers from each division (UDE, UDN, UDSW) respectively.  I have an uncle who is an attorney in the DA's office and several close family members who are associated with TCSO.  I would say my knowledge of their department is pretty accurate.  This is probably before your time in Tulsa, but Drew Diamond (the former TPD Chief of Police) was our neighbor next door (go ahead and laugh, I can hear it already!)

4.  I dont know why I should be ashamed of myself for simply pointing out your inaccuracies of TPD.  My rantings are simply knowledge that I wanted to pass on to this board because of the inaccuaries you posted above. I am glad your family members are ALUM of TU because its a great instituion, I am sorry however they would take offense to the accurate and credible information being passed along above.  

The only person I am "fuming and jibing" with is you.  I correctly pointed out your inaccurate information that was being passed off as truthful, which in fact, is not!

5.  I am having a hard time understanding, this "misbehavior" you talk about.  I am an oustanding citizen of this fine community I call home.  If you care to challenge that, please let me know and I will give you some my background info and credentials.  Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt one of the reasons many kids go off to college is "to find themselves and what they are about" aside from the obvious reason of gettin an education?  Now then, what type of society would we live if everyone that were a TU Alum all had the same habits, manners, worked the same job, had the same beliefs, values, morals, etc.  We would be living in a rather shallow and dull world wouldnt we Sir/Mam?


6.  Now please explain to me my "misinformed opinons" about the Jenks Campus Police.  I graduated from Jenks, I know who they are, what they do, what they stand for, how they operate, etc etc.  I have no beef with them, while in school I found them rather refreshing.  In the day of Columbine, everyone wondered could it happen here.  It very well could have, but they were always around and very aware of the surroundings. Do they throw around their power sometimes? you bet they do, especially when some high school punk trys to show them up and look cool in front of his friends.

You may not agree with my opinions, beliefs, and thoughts, but dont sit there and pretend to be the internet police.  I shouldnt be ashamed for anything I said in any earlier posts because I posted factual information that was accurate and taken directly from their website. I proved your "accurate information that you can take to the bank" is in fact inaccurate and undeniably wrong!

Now if I hurt you or your family members feelings or if think of me as misbehaving and shameful, that is totally their right and I apologize in advance.  But just like I have my right to voice my opinion, they must live a very sheltered life.

Now what is your beef with me Sir/Mam?

[Paul]

http://www.copjobs.com/POLICE%20DEPARTMENT%20JOB%20OPENINGS.htm

TULSA P.D.     918-591-4521    
FAX: 918-596-9330    www.tulsapolice.org
Human Resources Department
City of Tulsa
200 Civic Center
Tulsa, OK 74103
Population: 367,302
Apprentice Police Officer: Must be 21-45 yoa, be U.S. citizen and reside in the Tulsa Metropolitan area once hired. May not have been convicted of a felony or a crime of moral turpitude. Must have completed a Bachelor's degree with a C+ average or better at an accredited college. No military hours or credits are accepted unless they are received from or converted through an accredited college. Vision must be corrected to 20//20 in one eye and at least 20/40 in the other eye. Contact lenses and glasses are acceptable. Hearing must be normal in both ears. No hearing aid devices will be accepted.  Written test and a physical agility test are given the first Tuesday of each Month at 6066 E. 66th Street North, Tulsa, OK, promptly at 8:00am. Bring original college transcripts, photo ID, and athletic wear. Test takes approximately five hours. Starting salary: $33,711/yr. Clothing allowance: $625/yr.

[Wilbur]

quote: 2. Lets tackle Jurisdiction. I will explain myself for you once again. Anyone who has a valid drivers license should know that Tulsa Police Officers do not have jurisdiction in Los Angeles California, Chicago, Illinois or New York. Is that clear enough? Just like officers from those cities would not have jurisdiction in Tulsa. Now IMO anyone with "half a brain" would know and understand that.

That is not entirely correct.  Actually, some officers who work along with federal agencies on some task forces do have federal jurisdiction, meaning they do have jurisdiction in all those cities you mentioned.  

Tribal nations are also another problem of jurisdiction.  Tulsa cross-deputizes with the Creeks because of the casino, but jurisdictional issues are still confusing because jurisdiction ends up being determined by the race of the victim and the race of the suspect.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote: 2. Lets tackle Jurisdiction. I will explain myself for you once again. Anyone who has a valid drivers license should know that Tulsa Police Officers do not have jurisdiction in Los Angeles California, Chicago, Illinois or New York. Is that clear enough? Just like officers from those cities would not have jurisdiction in Tulsa. Now IMO anyone with "half a brain" would know and understand that.

That is not entirely correct.  Actually, some officers who work along with federal agencies on some task forces do have federal jurisdiction, meaning they do have jurisdiction in all those cities you mentioned.  

Tribal nations are also another problem of jurisdiction.  Tulsa cross-deputizes with the Creeks because of the casino, but jurisdictional issues are still confusing because jurisdiction ends up being determined by the race of the victim and the race of the suspect.

I mentioned cross deputization in an earlier post.  I also was speaking solely of TPD officers.  We all know federal marshalls, ATF, and other federal agencies have jurisdiction everywhere.  I was solely speaking about TPD officers in other cities. There are of course exceptions to every rule, just like the one you mentioned above.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Paul

http://www.copjobs.com/POLICE%20DEPARTMENT%20JOB%20OPENINGS.htm

TULSA P.D.     918-591-4521    
FAX: 918-596-9330    www.tulsapolice.org
Human Resources Department
City of Tulsa
200 Civic Center
Tulsa, OK 74103
Population: 367,302
Apprentice Police Officer: Must be 21-45 yoa, be U.S. citizen and reside in the Tulsa Metropolitan area once hired. May not have been convicted of a felony or a crime of moral turpitude. Must have completed a Bachelor's degree with a C+ average or better at an accredited college. No military hours or credits are accepted unless they are received from or converted through an accredited college. Vision must be corrected to 20//20 in one eye and at least 20/40 in the other eye. Contact lenses and glasses are acceptable. Hearing must be normal in both ears. No hearing aid devices will be accepted.  Written test and a physical agility test are given the first Tuesday of each Month at 6066 E. 66th Street North, Tulsa, OK, promptly at 8:00am. Bring original college transcripts, photo ID, and athletic wear. Test takes approximately five hours. Starting salary: $33,711/yr. Clothing allowance: $625/yr.

I personally would trust the actual police website vs any 3rd party site to quote actual pay.  Check your own link above for yourself.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote: 2. Lets tackle Jurisdiction. I will explain myself for you once again. Anyone who has a valid drivers license should know that Tulsa Police Officers do not have jurisdiction in Los Angeles California, Chicago, Illinois or New York. Is that clear enough? Just like officers from those cities would not have jurisdiction in Tulsa. Now IMO anyone with "half a brain" would know and understand that.

That is not entirely correct.  Actually, some officers who work along with federal agencies on some task forces do have federal jurisdiction, meaning they do have jurisdiction in all those cities you mentioned.  

Tribal nations are also another problem of jurisdiction.  Tulsa cross-deputizes with the Creeks because of the casino, but jurisdictional issues are still confusing because jurisdiction ends up being determined by the race of the victim and the race of the suspect.

I mentioned cross deputization in an earlier post.  I also was speaking solely of TPD officers.  We all know federal marshalls, ATF, and other federal agencies have jurisdiction everywhere.  I was solely speaking about TPD officers in other cities. There are of course exceptions to every rule, just like the one you mentioned above.

I'm also only referring to TPD officers.  Some TPD officers serve on federal task forces, thus they have the same jurisdiction has federal officers.

[patric]

Before this thread was hijacked to showcase how well trained school guards are, it was about how their accountability stacked up against traditional officers, and the secrecy some school police departments operate in.  To bring us up to date:

U.S. Marshals arrested a security guard at Wagoner High School for the alleged Sept. 1 rape of a student there.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=12&articleID=20080104_1_A5_pbAma38574

[patric]

Instant Riot: Just add Pepper Spray and agitate vigorously.
(note the very liberal use of the catch phrase "gang related")

A student fight at McLain High School for Science and Technology on Thursday began with a few girls but turned into a melee that required intervention by Tulsa police.

One 15-year-old female student was arrested, and a 17-year-old girl was treated by EMSA after she was pepper-sprayed by school security, said Leland Ashley, spokesman for the Tulsa Police Department.
The incident may have been gang-related, he said. Tami Marler, spokeswoman for Tulsa Public Schools, said the disturbance began between classes, with four or five girls in a verbal exchange near the school's main entrance.  "It's an ongoing neighborhood dispute between two groups of girls. It started out with a verbal altercation and then escalated into a physical altercation," she said.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

Before this thread was hijacked to showcase how well trained school guards are, it was about how their accountability stacked up against traditional officers, and the secrecy some school police departments operate in.  To bring us up to date:

U.S. Marshals arrested a security guard at Wagoner High School for the alleged Sept. 1 rape of a student there.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectID=12&articleID=20080104_1_A5_pbAma38574

Not sure how a security guard getting arrested has anything to do with accountability of a school district that has its own police force.  Those are two very different things.

Security guards are private citizens with no power of enforcement or arrest.  A school with a sanctioned police force have the same police powers as any other police force.

[patric]

quote:
Instant Riot: Just add Pepper Spray and agitate vigorously.
(note the very liberal use of the catch phrase "gang related")

A student fight at McLain High School for Science and Technology on Thursday began with a few girls but turned into a melee that required intervention by Tulsa police.

One 15-year-old female student was arrested, and a 17-year-old girl was treated by EMSA after she was pepper-sprayed by school security, said Leland Ashley, spokesman for the Tulsa Police Department.
The incident may have been gang-related, he said. Tami Marler, spokeswoman for Tulsa Public Schools, said the disturbance began between classes, with four or five girls in a verbal exchange near the school's main entrance.  "It's an ongoing neighborhood dispute between two groups of girls. It started out with a verbal altercation and then escalated into a physical altercation," she said.

I had a chance to read Tami Marler's press release regarding the disturbance.  The soft-peddled description of the girl who was choked by campus guards with Mace being brushed off as "a student having breathing trouble" doesnt instill me with much confidence in the honesty or integrity of the TPS leadership.

Without real accountability, I would expect them to be less than forthcoming about much worse things in the future.