Price Gouging after the Flood

[sauerkraut]

Hang on tight. I heard that the fuel prices are still about to go higher, perhaps another .35 cents to 50 cents depending on what part of the country you live in. I guess another refinery is starting to sputter out and the market will lose another 87,000 barrels of oil. The worst is yet to come. In the fall we can expect another big hike as the refineries shut down for maintence and the change over to winter grade gasoline. When fuel hits over $3.50 a gallon it crimps many people's driving. This is all nuts -like the other post mentioned above for over 100 years gasoline was under $1.00 a gallon then it suddenly jumped up and stayed there, it seemed to go up big time after those hurricanes in 2005 and never really fully came back down..It's all a rip off.

[Conan71]

When I bought my truck in 1999, it would cost about $22 to $25 to fill it.  It's most recently around $68.

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like they are being held down and raped everytime they fill up?

[AMP]

A quart of oil . . .

Most is bottled locally, just as bottled water and soda pop, as it costs way too much to ship water or oil around the U.S. via a 5-mpg diesel truck or Train.  The refineries simply put the refined oil with specific additives into the perspective client's bottles, or generic black bottles with a stick on label. All motor oil passes an API standard and for the most part sans the additives it is all basically the same product, different viscosity that means the thickness of the product, but still the same stuff in the bottles.  Different viscosity oil is used, based on the types of bearings being lubricated in the device based on the engineers' design.

Oil reminds me of milk, you have your 100% milk that is processed Pasteurized and Homogenized, but has most everything in it when it came from the Cow and it is a thicker viscosity. They you have the 2% variety, kind of like decaffeinated coffee, never quite understood the logic of that, seems like de-THCed marijuana or something.   The 2% variety is much thinner lower viscosity, however in Milk it tends to cost more for less?  Oil on the other hand seems to run the same price thick or thin.

Would seem you are getting more for your money with the thicker variety in Oil to me as it comes off the lower part of the cracking tower, however I do know that Nitro Methane comes off the higher part of the tower, it is much thinner and costs way more.  So in these cases perhaps thinner is better, or at least higher priced in most cases, other than with the Quart of Oil which remains the same price straight 40 weight or 10w40 . . .

Dollar General and Family Dollar were both selling quart of oil for 75 cents up until about six months ago, when someone up top had a light bulb come on in their brain.  They then raised it to 1.00 per quart, then a couple of months ago it shot up to $1.25 per quart.  

Thought it was interesting to watch the price of OIL which is made from petroleum staying at the 75 cent mark, while the price of gasoline which is made in the same cracking tower as the oil was fluctuating all over the dial.   LOL  

Speaking of real sugar, back in the day before the Cuba/Russia politics, some of our sugar came from Cuba.  I recall it was more of a larger chunk and had a golden tint to it.  

Seemed to melt in Iced Tea much easier than this white stuff they pawn off on us today.

Were there as many folks diagnosed with diabetes back then?  Makes you wonder sometimes...

On the OIL and GAS thread....

Why is there not a retail or member only high volume discount pump station located at or near the refineries?  Guess you have to own a Tanker Truck to get the the discount price on fuel...

Most any other product you buy, most times you get a discount in larger quanities or volume purchase.  Does not seem to be the case with gasoline.  Even a gallon of Oil is priced same as a single quart and comes in one versus four containers.  

Recycle Michael, on the gallon versus quart pricing can you splain that to us?

[AMP]

You can still buy select brands of regfrigerated soda pop at Sam's, Wal Mart and their Neighrhood Market stores out of the soda machine for a quarter.  Albertsons at one time had the quarter pop machines also.

Now walk into a Quik Trip, and it is a totally different deal, PLUS you pay TAX at QT, where at the vending machine there is NO TAX collected on your purchase.  



I perfer the Grapette at the quarter machines, actually it is quite a treat on a hot day.  I used to stock the Grapette in the two vending machines in front of Oertle's store on Memorial during the summer months in the late 1960's.  I turned the temp dial down to the slushy stage on one of the machines.  Those soda pops were some of the best in those days.

[restored2x]

I have been trying to stay out of this discussion. This is a real point of anger for me. What is happening at the pump should be criminal. It is unethical and immoral to bend society over and rape and pillage like this. They will continue to up the price until the market suffers. Then it will stay at unreasonably high prices.

The record profits these companies are making show that the prices do NOT need to go up for them to make money. All the talk about summer and winter grades, refineries having to do maintenance, etc. are mere excuses. All those things had to be done when gas was below $1 a gallon, too - but the price didn't go up seasonally, or when somebody spilled a gallon.

The government will do NOTHING because money talks and BS walks. Since votes can be bought - even talk about about not voting for certain politicians is nothing but BS in their eyes.

All the new hybrids, all the advancements in MPG on our cars, all the environmental education and changes being made have not lowered the price of one gallon of gas - so all that is BS, too.

High gas prices are apparently good for the economy overall - otherwise the government would stop this. Just not good for my budget.

Wish there was a grassroots movement to get our collective voice heard.

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by restored2x

Wish there was a grassroots movement to get our collective voice heard.

We are the grassroots movement.  When something bothers us so much that we start to talk to others that have the same problem and want something done, that's a start.  Then they join forces and take over the world.  Oh, wait.

Actually, there already are some grassroots movements out there.  Unfortunately, most of the ones I've found are only there demanding "gas out" days...ew.

I just found a website on the Dept. of Energy's website that we all need to visit: Gaswatch.

quote:The Department of Energy is very concerned about the impact of gasoline prices on American families. While we are working to address longer term supply issues, we're also working to make sure American families are being treated fairly. If you believe there may be price-gouging, or price-fixing, please contact your local authorities and fill out the form below.

http://gaswatch.energy.gov/

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by restored2x

I have been trying to stay out of this discussion. This is a real point of anger for me. What is happening at the pump should be criminal. It is unethical and immoral to bend society over and rape and pillage like this. They will continue to up the price until the market suffers. Then it will stay at unreasonably high prices.

The record profits these companies are making show that the prices do NOT need to go up for them to make money. All the talk about summer and winter grades, refineries having to do maintenance, etc. are mere excuses. All those things had to be done when gas was below $1 a gallon, too - but the price didn't go up seasonally, or when somebody spilled a gallon.

The government will do NOTHING because money talks and BS walks. Since votes can be bought - even talk about about not voting for certain politicians is nothing but BS in their eyes.

All the new hybrids, all the advancements in MPG on our cars, all the environmental education and changes being made have not lowered the price of one gallon of gas - so all that is BS, too.

High gas prices are apparently good for the economy overall - otherwise the government would stop this. Just not good for my budget.

Wish there was a grassroots movement to get our collective voice heard.

This should wake up anyone who still believes that Democrats are still fighting for the "little guy".  Granted, the oil industry is un-regulated.  However, there has been little more than token talking about the issue in the Democrat-led Congress.

This reaches into our wallets at more than the pump.  Processing and transportation costs for raw materials and finished goods are sky-rocketing.

Congress is wasting time on digging into the firing of eight (probably over-paid) prosecutors and still felching around the Libby scandal rather than getting to the bottom of why millions of American consumers are being gratuitously ripped off by the oil companies.

There, I made it political. []

[patric]

Which brings us back to the question...
Were Tulsa retailers violating our agreement with the EPA by using Coffeyville gas all this time?  (And were we paying a markup for the "special blend" that was being mis-represented?)

...or are we actually using the reduced Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) blend gas were supposed to be using (that's piped in from the Gulf Coast) and the Coffeyville plant disaster is just a pretext to raise prices locally?

Sofar, none of our brick-and-mortar media are even addressing the question (or doing little more than repackaging the local AAA spokesman).

[restored2x]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by restored2x

I have been trying to stay out of this discussion. This is a real point of anger for me. What is happening at the pump should be criminal. It is unethical and immoral to bend society over and rape and pillage like this. They will continue to up the price until the market suffers. Then it will stay at unreasonably high prices.

The record profits these companies are making show that the prices do NOT need to go up for them to make money. All the talk about summer and winter grades, refineries having to do maintenance, etc. are mere excuses. All those things had to be done when gas was below $1 a gallon, too - but the price didn't go up seasonally, or when somebody spilled a gallon.

The government will do NOTHING because money talks and BS walks. Since votes can be bought - even talk about about not voting for certain politicians is nothing but BS in their eyes.

All the new hybrids, all the advancements in MPG on our cars, all the environmental education and changes being made have not lowered the price of one gallon of gas - so all that is BS, too.

High gas prices are apparently good for the economy overall - otherwise the government would stop this. Just not good for my budget.

Wish there was a grassroots movement to get our collective voice heard.

This should wake up anyone who still believes that Democrats are still fighting for the "little guy".  Granted, the oil industry is un-regulated.  However, there has been little more than token talking about the issue in the Democrat-led Congress.

This reaches into our wallets at more than the pump.  Processing and transportation costs for raw materials and finished goods are sky-rocketing.

Congress is wasting time on digging into the firing of eight (probably over-paid) prosecutors and still felching around the Libby scandal rather than getting to the bottom of why millions of American consumers are being gratuitously ripped off by the oil companies.

There, I made it political. []

There is no such thing in our day and age as a politician of any affiliation being for the little guy.

Politics are about money and power - period. You can choose Pepsi or Coke - but it's still just soda. They are all a bunch of bull-crappers who live in their own world and say whatever sells to the rest of us.

Show me just ONE politician who is truly passionate about anything. Gore and the environment? More political bullcrap and hypocrisy - his monthly electric bill is half my yearly salary!

Anyone who even talks about the need for a third party alternative is treated like they wear aluminum foil hats to protect against alien brain upload.

Party and national politics is a joke. Time wasted on campaigning and arguing about national politics amounts to nothing more than does farting in a windstorm.

Needless to say - I am not looking forward to the upcoming election year. I loathe it. Whoever gets in as our new president, Coke or Pepsi - same crap - different label.

[buckeye]

quote:All motor oil passes an API standard and for the most part sans the additives it is all basically the same product, different viscosity that means the thickness of the product, but still the same stuff in the bottles. Different viscosity oil is used, based on the types of bearings being lubricated in the device based on the engineers' design.

That's a dangerously incomplete understanding.

Check out the forums at www.bobistheoilguy.com to get a taste of oil.  Is the oil Group II?  Group III with a little IV and called synthetic?  Group IV with a little Group I to hold the additives?  Boutique-style mainly Group V, only available at your local speed shop?  Each group of molecules has different characteristics and the overall characteristics of the oil depends on those ratios and how they interact with that oil's specific additive package.  It's not so simple...

None the less, why doesn't the price of motor oil fluctuate as much as gasoline?  It's amazing that there's so little "wiggle room" in the industry that the price of gas can jump by 10-20% based on investor's feelings or pie-in-the-sky prognostications.  If the refinery in Kansas accounts for 1/7 (14%) of gasoline produced in the states and we get our gas from them, we should be paying about $3.45 per gallon - a 14% increase from a week or so ago.  But then there's this low vapor pressure blend that supposedly is the ONLY stuff we use...  Hm...

Recently, Tulsa enjoyed some of the lowest gas prices in the nation.  Now we're a good bit closer to average.  Somebody realized the potential for more money and increased prices arbitrarily.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by restored2x

There is no such thing in our day and age as a politician of any affiliation being for the little guy.

Politics are about money and power - period. You can choose Pepsi or Coke - but it's still just soda. They are all a bunch of bull-crappers who live in their own world and say whatever sells to the rest of us.

Show me just ONE politician who is truly passionate about anything. Gore and the environment? More political bullcrap and hypocrisy - his monthly electric bill is half my yearly salary!

Anyone who even talks about the need for a third party alternative is treated like they wear aluminum foil hats to protect against alien brain upload.

Party and national politics is a joke. Time wasted on campaigning and arguing about national politics amounts to nothing more than does farting in a windstorm.

Needless to say - I am not looking forward to the upcoming election year. I loathe it. Whoever gets in as our new president, Coke or Pepsi - same crap - different label.

I mainly did that as a dig on the last few libs on this forum who believe voting Democrat will dig us out of the morass in Washington.

You haven't been around the forum for very long to know me yet.  I'm a registered non-party-line-voting  Republican and equal-opportunity lampooner of both parties.

I came to the conclusion long ago that legislators are nothing but conduits for the real power in Washington- the lobbyists.

You and I have very similar views on gov't. []

Oh Gore, not only about the electric bill, how about he's invested up to his neck in green technology?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by patric



Which brings us back to the question...
Were Tulsa retailers violating our agreement with the EPA by using Coffeyville gas all this time?  (And were we paying a markup for the "special blend" that was being mis-represented?)

...or are we actually using the reduced Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) blend gas were supposed to be using (that's piped in from the Gulf Coast) and the Coffeyville plant disaster is just a pretext to raise prices locally?

Sofar, none of our brick-and-mortar media are even addressing the question (or doing little more than repackaging the local AAA spokesman).

"Chuck Mai with the AAA tells us why..."[]

Patric, I don't know about us getting gas from Coffeyville.  However, let's say abritrarily Kansas City gets most of it's 87 unleaded from C'ville.  Now that refinery is closed, they have to get gas from somewhere, perhaps the Gulf Coast where we supposedly get our gas which supposedly stretches refining capacity from there and perhaps other refineries.

I'm not sure what total gas and diesel consumption is in the U.S. every day, but taking 4.1 mm gal off the market is significant.  .40 per gallon significant?  I don't think it should be.

[sauerkraut]

In many cases The gov't is making alot of money on these high fuel prices because people spend more on fuel,thus they also pay more in taxes. This is very bad, fuel costs more than a gallon of milk and the average guy can't even take his family on a car trip anymore and every summer for the past few years it's the same old story they raise the prices on the pumps sky high, with some excuse. Back in the by-gone eras it was never like this. Some of the mess can be blamed on the enviromental wackos for making all those restrictions on gasoline and not letting anyone drill for more oil or build refineries. We still can't drill in Alaska. The gov't is also partly to blame too. The pump prices jump 20-30 cents per day. Then prices fall at only pennies at a time, reach a lower level then here comes another 30 cent hike overnight..[xx(]

[Conan71]

Sauer- I think we've covered this ground before.  I believe the gov't tax is a flat rate per gallon, not a percentage of the sales price.  Not sure how Ohio assesses their fuel taxes.

[RecycleMichael]

Here is a graph of the last 30 day retail price in the Tulsa area.

http://www.oklahomagasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

Oklahoma adds seventeen cents per gallon for gasoline and fourteen cents per gallon of diesel then adds another penny for an underground storage tank cleanup fund to each.

Kansas has 25 and 27 for each, Arkansas 22 and 23 for each. Only Alaska, Wyoming and New Jersey charge less state gasoline tax than Oklahoma.

That is why our roads stink.