7 Wonders of Tulsa

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by deinstein

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Bonus Wonder: I wonder how long we'll tolerate such wide disparities of income before we realize thats why we have no consensus.

Socialism sucks.  Marx is dead.

Ignorance is bliss.

You made quite a stretch guys to take my remark to be socialist. But then thats what you do. Everything is politics, even when its just economics. So countries whose top execs don't rake in 300 times what their average employee makes, those are all socialists too? Japan, England, France, etc.? And of course those damn healthy, happy, non-aligned Scandinavian countries. Sticks and stones...

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by deinstein

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Bonus Wonder: I wonder how long we'll tolerate such wide disparities of income before we realize thats why we have no consensus.

Socialism sucks.  Marx is dead.

Ignorance is bliss.

You made quite a stretch guys to take my remark to be socialist. But then thats what you do. Everything is politics, even when its just economics. So countries whose top execs don't rake in 300 times what their average employee makes, those are all socialists too? Japan, England, France, etc.? And of course those damn healthy, happy, non-aligned Scandinavian countries. Sticks and stones...

No Waterboy, I'm not misconstruing what you said as Socialist. I am acknowledging that these European nations have adopted a model of socialized/mixed economy economics that seems to work better than what the Marxist Leninist schools of thought put in practice.

[Phireman]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I would take oktoberfest off. The rain a few years back killed it. I would put the fair or Mayfest in it's place. Both have many more people.

Second thoght, the IPE building. Largest clearspan building on the planet.

It should be renamed "Drunkfest".

[Double A]

I think our flood control system should top that list.

[shadows]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Now, now.  It worked well for North Korea, the USSR, Poland, the Ukraine, Cuba, Vietnam, the Balkan states and Kazakhstan.  That's how they got to be the powerful and prosperous states they are today.  I, for one, whole heartedly trust my government to make informed and wise decisions.  The more they are in charge of, the better things will be!

I digress, back to the wonders!

You are forgetting China who’s industrial ability has made them a super power to reckon with.  In the world bank we are indebt to them for over three trillion dollars and increasing.  Next we will have them make us a printing press so we can increase our circulation of the devalued dollar that by threats we are forcing upon the world.

Roberts, when he was establishing the “City of Faith” which included ORU was an outsider to the elite in control of Tulsa.  The day the foundations for the hospital were dug Rome was telling him that he would not be given a building permit because we had more hospital rooms that we would need.   The day it was opened it had the most up-to-date equipment available.  He even established a school to train doctors.  Also a law school.  All had been paid for.  I even helped.  

The campaign started to discredit the schools as TU, a private owned college, considered the schools a threat to them although he gave his law library to them when it was closed.  Tulsa’s silent government pointed their thumbs down.

Next the hospital was under fire.   Doctors would not send people there.  The silent government in Tulsa stopped even the welfare patients from being sent there.  

World wide the ORU graduates are highly credited.  In the post card racks in the airports are pictures of the campus.

Doctors hospital; same fate, wrong people.

How many new rooms and hospitals have we built since?

How do you classify “Wonder of Tulsa”?

Is it qualified on approval of the “Insiders”?      

[waterboy]

I'm not a socialist. I'm a guy who tried to inject some satirical humor into a pointless list of pseudo-wonders. I tried to edit the post twice to say that but it never took. Jaynes it was just coincidence that your post preceded mine.

My only point was that when a community has such a wide spread between the ruling class and the working class, as in Tulsa, there is not likely to be any consensus on public projects. As a nation we have a similar problem with execs making hundreds of times what the average worker makes even though our execs are no more effective than other countries where the spread is much smaller.

If telling the truth makes me socialist then so be it.

[Conan71]

Talk about massive thread drift...

[restored2x]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Now, now.  It worked well for North Korea, the USSR, Poland, the Ukraine, Cuba, Vietnam, the Balkan states and Kazakhstan.  That's how they got to be the powerful and prosperous states they are today.  I, for one, whole heartedly trust my government to make informed and wise decisions.  The more they are in charge of, the better things will be!

I digress, back to the wonders!

You are forgetting China who’s industrial ability has made them a super power to reckon with.  In the world bank we are indebt to them for over three trillion dollars and increasing.  Next we will have them make us a printing press so we can increase our circulation of the devalued dollar that by threats we are forcing upon the world.

Roberts, when he was establishing the “City of Faith” which included ORU was an outsider to the elite in control of Tulsa.  The day the foundations for the hospital were dug Rome was telling him that he would not be given a building permit because we had more hospital rooms that we would need.   The day it was opened it had the most up-to-date equipment available.  He even established a school to train doctors.  Also a law school.  All had been paid for.  I even helped.  

The campaign started to discredit the schools as TU, a private owned college, considered the schools a threat to them although he gave his law library to them when it was closed.  Tulsa’s silent government pointed their thumbs down.

Next the hospital was under fire.   Doctors would not send people there.  The silent government in Tulsa stopped even the welfare patients from being sent there.  

World wide the ORU graduates are highly credited.  In the post card racks in the airports are pictures of the campus.

Doctors hospital; same fate, wrong people.

How many new rooms and hospitals have we built since?

How do you classify “Wonder of Tulsa”?

Is it qualified on approval of the “Insiders”?      

Thank you. It is amazing that people OUTSIDE of Tulsa know these things - yet people on the inside, instead of championing what we have and looking at the positive, seem to be puppets of the mass media, and jump on the "all evangelists are evil - let's bash Oral, ORU OREA, and the Towers, so we can fit in and not look hickish" bandwagon.

As for the architecture - I think it is really cool. Most visitors I have had really want to see the campus and also think it's cool. It ain't no Tulane, Loyola or Harvard - but it ain't supposed to be - on purpose.

Oral Roberts is quite a character. What he has done is quite incredible. Strip away theological bias, and what you have here is an amazing story of an Okie rising from poverty to influence the entire world. Hollywood is gonna love this story.

Wherever you go in the world - people know his name and what he has accomplished. New Yorkers hate Trump - Okies seem to disparage Oral. Shame.

He is an old man - and when he passes - I truly hope Tulsa will celebrate the Cherokee who bought a pig farm and transformed it into an influential university. Maybe it will be a day we can set aside our personal religious prejudices and show pride in one of the last Okie pioneers.

/stepping down from soapbox

[TURobY]

HA! I take it that you've never attended ORU. Otherwise, you would know that even the students there share a disdain for Oral. []

[restored2x]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

HA! I take it that you've never attended ORU. Otherwise, you would know that even the students there share a disdain for Oral. []

I guess they should have chosen another school to go to. I have no respect for someone who would choose to go to that school, pay good money to get the education afforded them, and then be disloyal to what will be their alma mater.

If true, your comment speaks more of the character of those specific students, and not Oral or the University.

If they are trying to separate the education from the founder - that will be hard to do - considering the fact that their diploma will say ORAL ROBERTS UNIVERSITY right across the top.

They need to stop trying to apologize for being in a school founded by an evangelist. Go the **** elsewhere for your education if you can't be proud of your school and its heritage! I am ashamed of those people.

What is your attitude about TU students who constantly complain about TU? THAT would never happen!

BTW - this series of posts are not drifting - we are debating whether or not ORU should be considered one of Tulsa's wonders. []

No - I didn't go there - but would have if afforded the opportunity years ago.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by shadows


You are forgetting China who’s industrial ability has made them a super power to reckon with.  In the world bank we are indebt to them for over three trillion dollars and increasing.  Next we will have them make us a printing press so we can increase our circulation of the devalued dollar that by threats we are forcing upon the world.

I love these little economic chats with you.

China only became a economic force when it adopted MARKET REFORMS.  Its communist school of economics dragged the country into grinding poverty and starved hundreds of millions of people (the great leap backwards).  GO COMMUNISM!  YAY!  Now with market reforms they have clawed their way up the ladder and have a BOOMING economy that is nearly 1/6th the size of the United States.  China's average income is $7,700... good enough for 84th highest paid nation on the planet (just ahead of Gabon).  Not exactly a world super power.  

2/3 of China operated as serf farmers living off of what the government allows to keep of their crops.  When they arent executed dissidents, squelching religion, or shutting down the press/internet/free thought.

Indeed, a great example of what communism gets you.  Even with the recent market reforms they are still 30 years behind.  A little more CAPITALISM and they'll be a real power.

China Holds $412 BILLION in US Debt, NOT 3 Trillion.  Where do you get your facts?  All in, foreign countries hold a total of 2.2 Trillion of US Treasury Notes. Japan is the largest holder with 619 B.  Don't you hate it when facts get in the way of a good rant?
http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

Money Printing
And finally, on the economics front, printing of money is no longer the major contributor to the devaluation of currency.  At any given time there is something like 22 Billion in US Dollars in circulation.  That amount is NOTHING.  If it were doubled it would have no effect on the valuation of the currency as there is TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS in wealth in USD.

Not to mention, one can accurately track the amount of currency in circulation and that amount is fairly stable.  Thus, it could not be the reason for a devaluation.  In fact, when a currency is more popular, more of that currency has to be minted.  Currently they must mint MORE Euros because of its increase popularity.  It will not devalue the money on any floating currency unless assigning amounts of cash are printed (see, ie. the Sudan).

quote:
All had been paid for.  I even helped.  

Not exactly true.  To be sure, the Towers were never paid for.  Nor was most of the medical equipment.  It was all floated on long term notes.  Which he nearly defaulted on and seriously considered filing for bankruptcy.

They cost $150,000,000.00 to built and led to $25,000,000 in over due debt.

It was all very public, as Oral got involved in several law suits over the multiple millions he owed.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_19960822/ai_n10095247

quote:
The campaign started to discredit the schools as TU, a private owned college, considered the schools a threat to them although he gave his law library to them when it was closed.  

Also not true.  Oral Roberts donate its small law library to Pat Robertson's college:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/04/08/scandal_puts_spotlight_on_christian_law_school/?page=full

Do you EVER research facts?

quote:
Next the hospital was under fire.   Doctors would not send people there.  The silent government in Tulsa stopped even the welfare patients from being sent there.  

Nothing more than tinfoil hat talk.  All evidence suggests he over leveraged himself.  Either that, or the will of your conspirators were able to defeat the will of Oral's god.  Just doesnt make sense.

quote:
World wide the ORU graduates are highly credited.  In the post card racks in the airports are pictures of the campus.

It is a fine school by all accounts and certainly has a beautiful campus.  I do not believe anyone has contradicted this.  I do not mind giving accolades to people I do not agree with, and certainly Oral Roberts has a list of accomplishments that can be touted.  But why do you feel the need to make things up to support him?


ps. Can we PLEASE digress back to nice lists of pretty thing sin Tulsa?

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by restored2x

I guess they should have chosen another school to go to. I have no respect for someone who would choose to go to that school, pay good money to get the education afforded them, and then be disloyal to what will be their alma mater.

If true, your comment speaks more of the character of those specific students, and not Oral or the University.

If they are trying to separate the education from the founder - that will be hard to do - considering the fact that their diploma will say ORAL ROBERTS UNIVERSITY right across the top.

They need to stop trying to apologize for being in a school founded by an evangelist. Go the **** elsewhere for your education if you can't be proud of your school and its heritage! I am ashamed of those people.

What is your attitude about TU students who constantly complain about TU? THAT would never happen!

BTW - this series of posts are not drifting - we are debating whether or not ORU should be considered one of Tulsa's wonders. []

No - I didn't go there - but would have if afforded the opportunity years ago.

Nearly 75% of the people I've met who've gone to ORU (or 13 out of 17)  went there only because their parents sent them there. They didn't have another personal, economically feasible alternative at the time. And from 95% of those people (or 16 out of 17), there was recognition that the student body, as a collective whole, rolled their eyes at Oral's rhetoric.

Additonally, I've heard several complaints from current and previous students on the mandatory chapel services, curfew, and so forth. When I was an undergrad at TU, we would have ORU students trying to hit up the fraternity houses to party all the time. Face it, these kids aren't there for their personal beliefs, they are there because that's where mom and dad sent them.

I'm not saying that the education is bad, and I'm not trying to bring down your view of the school. In fact, I love to walk around and look at the architecture when I'm in the area. I'm just stating that now-a-days, very few kids who attend ORU respect Oral or his mission. They are just trying to get a piece of paper and have an enjoyable time.

I would agree that the architecture of ORU is interesting (though maybe cheaply built, seeing as the dorms are falling apart). A "wonder" though... probably not. I would be willing to give the prayer tower (on its own) consideration, though.

[sauerkraut]

I was unable to think of any more than 3 wonders in Tulsa. I tryed, but failed. The 3 wonders  I can think of is the RiverSide jogging trail, BOK Tower, and Whataburger joints. beyond that I'm at a loss.[xx(]

[restored2x]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

quote:Originally posted by restored2x

I guess they should have chosen another school to go to. I have no respect for someone who would choose to go to that school, pay good money to get the education afforded them, and then be disloyal to what will be their alma mater.

If true, your comment speaks more of the character of those specific students, and not Oral or the University.

If they are trying to separate the education from the founder - that will be hard to do - considering the fact that their diploma will say ORAL ROBERTS UNIVERSITY right across the top.

They need to stop trying to apologize for being in a school founded by an evangelist. Go the **** elsewhere for your education if you can't be proud of your school and its heritage! I am ashamed of those people.

What is your attitude about TU students who constantly complain about TU? THAT would never happen!

BTW - this series of posts are not drifting - we are debating whether or not ORU should be considered one of Tulsa's wonders. []

No - I didn't go there - but would have if afforded the opportunity years ago.

Nearly 75% of the people I've met who've gone to ORU (or 13 out of 17)  went there only because their parents sent them there. They didn't have another personal, economically feasible alternative at the time. And from 95% of those people (or 16 out of 17), there was recognition that the student body, as a collective whole, rolled their eyes at Oral's rhetoric.

Additonally, I've heard several complaints from current and previous students on the mandatory chapel services, curfew, and so forth. When I was an undergrad at TU, we would have ORU students trying to hit up the fraternity houses to party all the time. Face it, these kids aren't there for their personal beliefs, they are there because that's where mom and dad sent them.

I'm not saying that the education is bad, and I'm not trying to bring down your view of the school. In fact, I love to walk around and look at the architecture when I'm in the area. I'm just stating that now-a-days, very few kids who attend ORU respect Oral or his mission. They are just trying to get a piece of paper and have an enjoyable time.

I would agree that the architecture of ORU is interesting (though maybe cheaply built, seeing as the dorms are falling apart). A "wonder" though... probably not. I would be willing to give the prayer tower (on its own) consideration, though.

OK - I guess I understand where you're coming from. Many religious schools suffer the same malady - parents send their kids to the school to "fix" them, or hope the school will somehow "convert" them. You can take the kid out of the party, but you can't take the party out of the kid.

Then again, to complain about the rules is a little stupid. After all - they know they are going to a certain kind of school - the rules are there up-front. Curfews and mandatory chapel services ain't gonna change anytime soon there.

I had an opportunity to write for OREA a few years back (wonderful job) - but turned it down because I couldn't sign the agreement about smoking and drinking. I could've signed the papers, taken the job and complained about the rules - but I don't roll like that. Maybe an 18-year-old who depends on their parents for tuition has no other choice... except maybe to grow up and pay their own way through the college of their choice.

Many of our nation's most liberal universities were started by evangelists and theologians. Over time, the schools have changed. Perhaps ORU is beginning to change. We (and you) are witnessing this change first-hand. I'll not say whether this is good or bad; It is the nature of the beast. Maybe in ten years time, we'll see students protesting the praying hands and the ACLU will take ORU to court to rename the Prayer Tower the "Diversity Peak" or something.

My vote still stands - ORU as one of the Wonders of Tulsa.

[Conan71]

Well, let's just say back in the day wisdom was to date ORU girls as they were a much more fun date. []